Was this a close shave?

From: recreationalflying.com.au/ today

Anyone recognize the field at Caboolture or witness what Craig
describes?
...............................................


Was this a close shave?
Hi guys,

I took my frequency scanner to Caboolture on Sunday to listen to what
was happening and see what is meant by building a mental picture of
where aircraft are based on their calls. Quite interesting... I'm
battling with '5 miles North West of the field'. I'm thinking in my
head - how did he know that!? Look at the compass, and work out the
reciprical value, or something? Need to brush up on my quick maths!

Anyways, I saw a powered glider doing his downwind pass. Behind him,
not very far back was a normal glider. I heard the powered guy
reporting that he was on downwind. Thene there was a 'hiss' on the
radio as if someone was about to speak - lasting maybe 4 seconds, then
nothing...

The powered guy entered left base, and reported. Glider had closed on
him a bit. Then the glider entered his base turn, and again.. a
hissss.... and nothing.

By now, I was watching intensly, as it seemed the glider was catching
the motorised glider.

Motorised guy turned and reported for finals. Then, about 5 seconds
later, this hissss... as the glider followed him... They were now at a
distance that I thought the powered guy may have been towing... but
surely not!

I watched as the powered guy landed... and timed it.. and measured
that 3 seconds later, the glider landed behind him - same runway.
There was no tether!

Firstly, if this is normal - disregard. But I just thought that it
looked like an accident in the making. The glider seemed WAY too
close. 3 seconds.. count it ... is pretty close, no? And he was
cathing all the time... OK, maybe the slowing speed makes the time gap
remain the same, but the distance reduce... but... it seemed fishy.
Also, the fact that I never once heard the glider report his
position... strange.

So, as a novice, I can guess at the fault: The gliders mic wasn't
working. Was he perhaps broadcasting, but as there was an issue with
his radio, no-one heard him. Especially the powered glider ahead of
him. He may have had no idea he had a glider behind him, and I guess a
glider can't do a go-around - but without the powered glider knowing
there was someone so close behinf him - he was just cruising in as
normal.

Or, perhaps the powered guy knew about it, and maybe this is what you
do when you know another aircraft has a comms problem? Fly close?

I saw the glider had his spoilers up from quite far out... so he was
trying to go slow... but as I say, it seemed to get closer and
closer... dangerously so.

Any ideas? Seems strange eh?

My second question would be what IF the radios were working. As the
powered guy seemed to be going slower (somehow), could the glider warn
him that he is a glider, and to hurry up - which would then maybe get
the powered guy to abort, climb out and go around for another landing?
The glider really has no option except to slow down. But he can't go-
around... he's basically commited to the landing. What happens in this
case?
__________________
Craig

My guess,
The glider battery was almost flat, hence the "hisses."
He followed the motorglider closely because he needed to!
He had no engine to extend his flight.
Motorglider probably didn't know glider was there.
So in a way : "ops normal!"
Caboolture is a busy gliding/ultralight/homebuilt/general aviation
field
in southern Queensland, Australia
Tom




On Oct 21, 3:14*pm, " wrote:
From: recreationalflying.com.au/ today

Anyone recognize the field at Caboolture or witness what Craig
describes?
..............................................

Was this a close shave?
Hi guys,

*I took my frequency scanner to Caboolture on Sunday to listen to what
was happening and see what is meant by building a mental picture of
where aircraft are based on their calls. Quite interesting... I'm
battling with '5 miles North West of the field'. I'm thinking in my
head - how did he know that!? Look at the compass, and work out the
reciprical value, or something? Need to brush up on my quick maths!

*Anyways, I saw a powered glider doing his downwind pass. Behind him,
not very far back was a normal glider. I heard the powered guy
reporting that he was on downwind. Thene there was a 'hiss' on the
radio as if someone was about to speak - lasting maybe 4 seconds, then
nothing...

*The powered guy entered left base, and reported. Glider had closed on
him a bit. Then the glider entered his base turn, and again.. a
hissss.... and nothing.

*By now, I was watching intensly, as it seemed the glider was catching
the motorised glider.

*Motorised guy turned and reported for finals. Then, about 5 seconds
later, this hissss... as the glider followed him... They were now at a
distance that I thought the powered guy may have been towing... but
surely not!

*I watched as the powered guy landed... and timed it.. and measured
that 3 seconds later, the glider landed behind him - same runway.
There was no tether!

*Firstly, if this is normal - disregard. But I just thought that it
looked like an accident in the making. The glider seemed WAY too
close. 3 seconds.. count it ... is pretty close, no? And he was
cathing all the time... OK, maybe the slowing speed makes the time gap
remain the same, but the distance reduce... but... it seemed fishy.
Also, the fact that I never once heard the glider report his
position... strange.

*So, as a novice, I can guess at the fault: The gliders mic wasn't
working. Was he perhaps broadcasting, but as there was an issue with
his radio, no-one heard him. Especially the powered glider ahead of
him. He may have had no idea he had a glider behind him, and I guess a
glider can't do a go-around - but without the powered glider knowing
there was someone so close behinf him - he was just cruising in as
normal.

*Or, perhaps the powered guy knew about it, and maybe this is what you
do when you know another aircraft has a comms problem? Fly close?

*I saw the glider had his spoilers up from quite far out... so he was
trying to go slow... but as I say, it seemed to get closer and
closer... dangerously so.

*Any ideas? Seems strange eh?

*My second question would be what IF the radios were working. As the
powered guy seemed to be going slower (somehow), could the glider warn
him that he is a glider, and to hurry up - which would then maybe get
the powered guy to abort, climb out and go around for another landing?
The glider really has no option except to slow down. But he can't go-
around... he's basically commited to the landing. What happens in this
case?
__________________
*Craig

On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 21:14:31 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

From: recreationalflying.com.au/ today

Anyone recognize the field at Caboolture or witness what Craig
describes?
..............................................

My second question would be what IF the radios were working. As the
powered guy seemed to be going slower (somehow), could the glider warn
him that he is a glider, and to hurry up - which would then maybe get
the powered guy to abort, climb out and go around for another landing?
The glider really has no option except to slow down. But he can't go-
around... he's basically commited to the landing. What happens in this
case?
__________________
Craig

seems to me that the second glider made the best of a bad situation
and pulled it off. he gets my congratulations.

when you are airborne and looking at the field you can fairly easily
guess distance and a rough bearing. those broadcasts are never
intended as pinpoint positions, more just an "I'm over to the
direction and I'll be in the circuit area in a moment or three" type
of heads up warning. if the receiving pilot looks in the general
direction he should eventually see the aircraft. that is all that is
needed for separation.

stealth pilot

At 04:14 21 October 2008, wrote:

I saw the glider had his spoilers up from quite far out... so he was
trying to go slow... but as I say, it seemed to get closer and
closer... dangerously so.

What the glider might have considered is putting the spoilers
away and doing some S-turns to increase spacing. Unless
there was some reason not to, like yet another glider in
the pattern.

Jim Beckman