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#141
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The Swedish Model: How to build a jet fighter.
On Sat, 31 May 2008 12:00:40 -0700 (PDT), Ron
wrote: On May 31, 8:53 am, Ed Rasimus wrote: On Fri, 30 May 2008 22:37:46 GMT, (Richard It is my understanding that the thud was the fastest plane in the world at low altitude, while the 104 was faster at high altitude. Nice if you plan to run away, although there is never enough fuel to do the supersonic bit for long. Casady Your understanding was correct. It didn't really take A/B to get going really quickly on the deck. We often came down the last fifty miles to a target at 540 indicated with a full load of eight 750 pound bombs and did nuclear deliveries on the range with a 600 KIAS run-in, all without burner. You could get supersonic quite easily with a short blast of burner and it didn't take long to get clear of anything. Ed Rasimus Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret) "When Thunder Rolled" "Palace Cobra"www.thunderchief.org Just imagine though what life would have been like though for the Navy Spad pilots tasked with throwing some instant sunshine over their shoulder. It didn't make much difference. They delivered smaller yield weapons and the margins were just as close for the faster jets hauling larger bangs. The "safe separation" distance from your own blast was so critical that when they painted the F-105s in camo they had to recalculate all of the nuclear delivery parameters--the reflective quality of the shiny aluminum was less heat absorbent than the dark colors of the camo. Ever ask the question of why a camo airplane should be white on the underside? Ed Rasimus Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret) "When Thunder Rolled" "Palace Cobra" www.thunderchief.org |
#142
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The Swedish Model: How to build a jet fighter.
In message , Ed Rasimus
writes Ever ask the question of why a camo airplane should be white on the underside? This was why RN Sea Harriers got repainted on their way south in 1982: the gloss white underpinnings were unlikely to be required for that particular conflict, and were likely to draw unfriendly eyes more than a more subdued scheme might. Why should delivering a "600lb Bomb, Medium Case" have been such a big deal anyway? -- The nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors, will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools. -Thucydides pauldotjdotadam[at]googlemail{dot}.com |
#143
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The Swedish Model: How to build a jet fighter.
Dan wrote:
JR Weiss wrote: "Douglas Eagleson" wrote: A certain supesonic maneuver will generate a class of wake that will always attack the trailing aircrafts ability to maintian control. ANY time a trailing aircraft crosses the wake vortex, full control will momentarily be overridden by the vortex! Nothing new here, and nothing unrecoverable! Well, you see, there was this MOVIE... Dan "Maverick, eject, eject, there's a MiG-28 on your tail .... .....and he's got Exocets...." -- Cheers Dave Kearton |
#144
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The Swedish Model: How to build a jet fighter.
JR Weiss wrote:
"Douglas Eagleson" wrote: A certain supesonic maneuver will generate a class of wake that will always attack the trailing aircrafts ability to maintian control. ANY time a trailing aircraft crosses the wake vortex, full control will momentarily be overridden by the vortex! Nothing new here, and nothing unrecoverable! Well, you see, there was this MOVIE... Dan |
#145
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The Swedish Model: How to build a jet fighter.
On May 30, 6:37*pm, (Richard Casady)
wrote: On Fri, 30 May 2008 19:43:04 GMT, Ed Rasimus wrote: Been there, done that, in front of a MiG-17 who WAS firing from about 500 feet behind me. In an F-105D, at the western end of Phantom Ridge where it spills out into the Red River Delta, starting the maneuver at about 800 feet AGL. Worked as advertized, but wouldn't like to have been there more than once in a lifetime! Wasted way too many heartbeats. It is my understanding that the thud was the fastest plane in the world at low altitude, while the 104 was faster at high altitude. Nice if you plan to run away, although there is never enough fuel to do the supersonic bit for long. I'm not sure that a Thud could outrun 37mm cannon shells, though. |
#146
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The Swedish Model: How to build a jet fighter.
On May 31, 12:06 pm, Ed Rasimus wrote:
On Sat, 31 May 2008 12:00:40 -0700 (PDT), Ron wrote: On May 31, 8:53 am, Ed Rasimus wrote: On Fri, 30 May 2008 22:37:46 GMT, (Richard It is my understanding that the thud was the fastest plane in the world at low altitude, while the 104 was faster at high altitude. Nice if you plan to run away, although there is never enough fuel to do the supersonic bit for long. Casady Your understanding was correct. It didn't really take A/B to get going really quickly on the deck. We often came down the last fifty miles to a target at 540 indicated with a full load of eight 750 pound bombs and did nuclear deliveries on the range with a 600 KIAS run-in, all without burner. You could get supersonic quite easily with a short blast of burner and it didn't take long to get clear of anything. Ed Rasimus Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret) "When Thunder Rolled" "Palace Cobra"www.thunderchief.org Just imagine though what life would have been like though for the Navy Spad pilots tasked with throwing some instant sunshine over their shoulder. It didn't make much difference. They delivered smaller yield weapons and the margins were just as close for the faster jets hauling larger bangs. The "safe separation" distance from your own blast was so critical that when they painted the F-105s in camo they had to recalculate all of the nuclear delivery parameters--the reflective quality of the shiny aluminum was less heat absorbent than the dark colors of the camo. Ever ask the question of why a camo airplane should be white on the underside? My guess, don't fry the sperm. Please do NOT confuse, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsar_Bomba with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Bamba_(song) Ed Rasimus Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret) "When Thunder Rolled" "Palace Cobra"www.thunderchief.org Cheers Ken |
#147
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The Swedish Model: How to build a jet fighter.
On Thu, 29 May 2008 12:15:23 GMT, (Eugene
Griessel) wrote: I wish somebody would change the header. Every time I see "Swedish Model" I start salivating and panting at the prospect of seeing an ash-blonde Nordic goddess. All I get is this inane banter ..... Somebody obviously likes Saabs much better than I do! |
#148
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The Swedish Model: How to build a jet fighter.
Richard Casady wrote:
On Fri, 30 May 2008 19:43:04 GMT, Ed Rasimus wrote: Been there, done that, in front of a MiG-17 who WAS firing from about 500 feet behind me. In an F-105D, at the western end of Phantom Ridge where it spills out into the Red River Delta, starting the maneuver at about 800 feet AGL. Worked as advertized, but wouldn't like to have been there more than once in a lifetime! Wasted way too many heartbeats. It is my understanding that the thud was the fastest plane in the world at low altitude, while the 104 was faster at high altitude. Nice if you plan to run away, although there is never enough fuel to do the supersonic bit for long. In the midst of my unpacking, I've dredged up a paper copy of: AIR COMBAT TACTICS EVALUATION F-100, F-104, F-105, F-4C VS MIG-15/17 TYPE AC(F-86H), Authored by the USAF Fighter Weapons School, Nellis AFB, May 1965. Basically, lacking a sufficient number of MiG-17s at the time, the USAF used ANG F-86Hs as MiG-equivalents, and turned them loose against TAC F-100s, F-104s, F-105s, and F-4Cs to find the best tactics to use when defensive (F-86s bouncing), and offensive. In all cases, the best tactic against a gun attack by the F-86 was to extend out, using AB and God's G, (0 G push - negating induced drag), breaking if necessary to spoil a gun run, and to consider reattacking when supersonic. Even at Mach 0.9 (Call it 600 Kts) it takes enough time for any of these jets to pull out of gun range in level flight for the MiG to run out of bullets. The speed was there, but acceleration, impressive as it was, wasn't enough to get you faster fast enough. -- Pete Stickney Any plan where you lose your hat is a bad plan |
#149
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The Swedish Model: How to build a jet fighter.
"The Horny Goat" wrote in message ... On Thu, 29 May 2008 12:15:23 GMT, (Eugene Griessel) wrote: I wish somebody would change the header. Every time I see "Swedish Model" I start salivating and panting at the prospect of seeing an ash-blonde Nordic goddess. All I get is this inane banter ..... Somebody obviously likes Saabs much better than I do! I thought he was talking about Volvo's, go figure. cheers....Jeff |
#150
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The Swedish Model: How to build a jet fighter.
Jeffrey Hamilton wrote:
"The Horny Goat" wrote in message ... On Thu, 29 May 2008 12:15:23 GMT, (Eugene Griessel) wrote: I wish somebody would change the header. Every time I see "Swedish Model" I start salivating and panting at the prospect of seeing an ash-blonde Nordic goddess. All I get is this inane banter ..... Somebody obviously likes Saabs much better than I do! I thought he was talking about Volvo's, go figure. cheers....Jeff Well, women DO have Volvos. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired |
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