Weather Flying - Buck

On 11/2/2005 9:39 PM, skym wrote the following:
FWIW, I agree with all of Mitty's three books as very good; I have all
three. However, I have found that Machado's two books -on basic pilot
training (I forget the title) and "The Instrument Pilot's Survival
Handbook"- to be right up there with them.


There is class of good books that require some tolerance on the part of the
reader. Machado's, for example. I find his "humor" to be very tedious. He
just wears me out, in print and in person. YMMV. I have sold off the Machado
books that I had although I will agree that the content is good.

Another good book in this "tolerance" class is "Everything Explained for the
Professional Pilot." It's a good thing that we are no longer using hand set
type, as the author of this book would have run the type case out of bold and
out of exclamation points by the middle of his second chapter. It is a
graphical train wreck but really does live up to its title. Everything is
there. This one, I will continue to own.

His "North Star Over My Shoulder" was being remaindered a while back. I think I
paid three or four dollars for mine, brand new. It is his autobiography and is
really great reading. Buy yourself a Thanksgiving present!

His "Flying Know-How" is also worth tracking down. I think it may be out of
print, though.

On 11/3/2005 5:59 AM, Greg Farris wrote the following:
Have not yet read Buck's Weather Flying, but I've heard so many glowing
recommendations - this one being just the most recent - that I now know
what to ask for for Christmas.

I don't know if Captain Buck has updated his book recently, but my copy says
nothing about super-cooled large droplets. The Roselawn, Illinois accident
was attributed to ice accretion of droplets far larger than those
contemplated by the Part 25 certification standards, and led to 25 or so
Airworthiness Directives revising the Flight Manuals of a bunch of
turboprops. IOW, Buck is good, but he is not the last word on icing.

Sporty's sells "In-Flight Icing," a book by a couple of icing experts
copyrighted in 1999. Every serious instrument pilot should read it.

Bob Gardner

wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm recently received my IFR ticket and flew in actual a couple weeks
ago for only the 2nd time. I picked up some rime ice at 9000' in a calm
stratus layer. Scared the &#&((*@# out of me! I promptly turned back
for home.

I just didn't feel like I got any real training for this in the IFR
work. Yes, I know the ground school stuff and I scored high on the
written, but that's wholly different.

I received Weather Flying by Buck from Amazon yesterday. And although
I'm only through chapter 2, it seems to be an outstanding book. I
highly recommend it.

I highly recommend http://aircrafticing.grc.nasa.gov/courses.html# NASA's
online aircraft icing course as a supplement to every pilots weather
library.
Jim

"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
...
I don't know if Captain Buck has updated his book recently, but my copy
says
nothing about super-cooled large droplets. The Roselawn, Illinois accident
was attributed to ice accretion of droplets far larger than those
contemplated by the Part 25 certification standards, and led to 25 or so
Airworthiness Directives revising the Flight Manuals of a bunch of
turboprops. IOW, Buck is good, but he is not the last word on icing.

Sporty's sells "In-Flight Icing," a book by a couple of icing experts
copyrighted in 1999. Every serious instrument pilot should read it.

Bob Gardner

wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm recently received my IFR ticket and flew in actual a couple weeks
ago for only the 2nd time. I picked up some rime ice at 9000' in a calm
stratus layer. Scared the &#&((*@# out of me! I promptly turned back
for home.

I just didn't feel like I got any real training for this in the IFR
work. Yes, I know the ground school stuff and I scored high on the
written, but that's wholly different.

I received Weather Flying by Buck from Amazon yesterday. And although
I'm only through chapter 2, it seems to be an outstanding book. I
highly recommend it.

wrote in message
oups.com...
A Lieberman wrote:

Never had icing, however, one lesson my CFI and I were in clouds right at
32 degrees. Water was beading up the windscreen, so as long as that was
happening, we were reasonably safe.

I wouldn't trust that at all. The collection efficiency for ice
increases as the surface gets narrower (towards the wind), so you can
have ice on your antennas when there's still water on your tail; ice on
your tail when there's still water on your wings; and ice on your wings
when there's still water on your windshield.

Fortunately, my Warrior (like most or all Piper PA-28 models) has an
outside air temperature gauge with a long metal probe sticking straight
out into the airstream from the middle of the windshield. Because the
probe is so narrow, ice will form on it before just about anything else
(except maybe the antennas, which I cannot see). I use it as my
early-warning device, and divert to warmer and/or dryer conditions as
soon as the first tiny piece of ice forms on the end of the probe.


All the best,


David


Whether the droplets are supercooled or not has nothing to do with
collection efficiency. Collection efficiency is simply the number of
droplets which impact a surface instead of going around it with the airflow.
Collection efficiency is a function of the mass of the droplets, airspeed
and the size and radius of the collecting surface. If the droplets hitting
the windscreen are not freezing (assuming the windscreen is not heated) then
the droplets hitting the tail are not freezing either.

Mike
MU-2

If the droplets hitting the windscreen are not
freezing (assuming the windscreen is not heated) then
the droplets hitting the tail are not freezing either.

I don't think that's true at all. The airflow around the windscreen is
different from the airflow around the tail. The temperature of the
inside of the cockpit (which influences the outside of the windscreen)
is different from the temperature inside the tail. The heat capacity of
aluminum is different from the heat capacity of plexiglass. All these
impact collection efficiency.

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

collection efficiency is a measure of what percentage of droplets will hit
the surface...nothing more. It has nothing to do with *whether* ice will
form on a surface, only how much.

Mike
MU-2


"Jose" wrote in message
...
If the droplets hitting the windscreen are not freezing (assuming the
windscreen is not heated) then the droplets hitting the tail are not
freezing either.

I don't think that's true at all. The airflow around the windscreen is
different from the airflow around the tail. The temperature of the inside
of the cockpit (which influences the outside of the windscreen) is
different from the temperature inside the tail. The heat capacity of
aluminum is different from the heat capacity of plexiglass. All these
impact collection efficiency.

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

collection efficiency is a measure of what percentage of droplets will hit
the surface...nothing more. It has nothing to do with *whether* ice will
form on a surface, only how much.

Ok, then collection efficiency is not a good measure of what's
important. What I care about is how much of that water will be
=retained= ("collected") as ice.

So, I am concerned about retention efficiency.

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

If you are below freezing in the clouds, don't be surprised if you get
ice. Instead, be pleasantly surprised if you don't get ice. In any
case, flying in icing conditions on your second actual IFR may not be
the best plan.

Did you check the temperature at 9000' before the flight? Were you
watching the temperature gauge? If conditons are right, you should be
expecting ice rather than be surprised by it.

You may also want to get the NASA Icing videos. It is an excellent
source of information, with real inflight footage, and it is
practically free. Sportys sells those videos.

Andrew Sarangan wrote:

If you are below freezing in the clouds, don't be surprised if you get
ice. Instead, be pleasantly surprised if you don't get ice.

.... unless it's a long way below zero, in which case the clouds
probably consist of ice crystals rather than supercooled water
droplets. I don't worry too much about flying in or through a cloud
layer when the OAT is -20 degC or lower -- the only time you'll get
iced up there there is if there's a lot of lifting action to carry
water droplets up from down low (i.e. the windward side of a mountain
ridge in a strong wind, or a towering cumulus cloud).


All the best,


David