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#11
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My P Baron was a LOT less than that; Of course, it hasn't been fixed yet,
either. $7.7K premium, $500 deductable, $375K on the hull. H. N502TB "G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message ... misha wrote: After being hit with a $15K premium with a $10K deductable, ... On what? George Patterson The optimist feels that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist is afraid that he's correct. James Branch Cavel |
#12
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In article ,
H. Adam Stevens wrote: You're not Ben Jackson the ex insurance agent are you? No. I only brought up the 100 hour point because I called an insurance broker while thinking about buying a plane, and the difference between 100h and =100h was such that you'd save money by by getting in a rental and orbiting the field for 15-20 hours if necessary. -- Ben Jackson http://www.ben.com/ |
#13
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("misha" wrote)
snip How many of you would dare to own a new a/c without having a full hull value coverage? If you "own" the plane outright, then your idea MIGHT work out for you ....only if you take those premiums and actually sock them away - just in case something happens. Like an engine reserve account, only this is your hull reserve account - IN THE BANK. Remember to make the same ($$$) premium payments, only they go to YOUR bank account (etc). It's a gamble. Good luck -- Montblack |
#14
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"misha" wrote in message ... I guess that tells you all you need to know about what the insurance -it saves you money, -it gives you good night sleep -it is what everybody does? I suspect most pilots have a loan against their airplane. Most (all?, almost all?) airplane lenders require full insurance, so the decision tree ends there for most pilots. I have analyzed the situation myself and decided on the same thing for my P210 -- liability and not-in-motion hull only. Realize the "true" value of your potential worst-case insurance payout is not the declared hull value but rather: Declared Hull value minus (Premium + Deductible + Expected Salvage Value). Consider that in most airplane accidents in which you walk away it is probable that the salvage value would be at least half the declared hull value, and then it becomes apparent that in-motion hull insurance often has only marginal value. In my case for commercial hull insurance last year the underwriter quoted 6% of the hull value with a deductible of 3% of hull value. If we assume salvage value would typically be 50% of the hull value, then I would pay a 6% annual premium for a policy which would have an expected maximum payout of 100% - (6% + 3% + 50%), which means a 6% annual premium for an expected maximum payout of 41%. Those odds sound more like gambling to me than insurance -- at those odds, I thought the money was better invested in an engine overhaul and other meticulous maintenance. Your numbers may vary, but the idea stays the same. -- Richard Kaplan, CFII www.flyimc.com |
#15
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Leland Vandervort wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:14:10 -0700, "Mike Rapoport" wrote: The insurance industry is not making a lot of money even at the new higher rates, so don't expect them to decline soon. Personally I only carry liability because I think that the hull coverage I have been offered is not a good deal. Insurance pricing is a combination of premiums and how much money the insurance company can make by investing those premiums before there is a claim. Obviously the expected rate of return on those investments is much lower than it was three years ago. What plane are you trying to insure and what are your pilot qualifications? Personally, for my insurance for my PA28R-200, with my PPL and 90 hours at the time of taking out the policy, only 4 hours on type, they quoted me £1750 (UK Pounds, so about $3000 / year), for £40,000 hull, £3 million public liability, £7.5 million crown liability (for government aerodromes) and a few other liabilities for various other countries. Deductible is only £500. I can't complain as this is even less premium than the car I sold to buy the airplane. In Australia, I'm paying about AUD 4400 for a hull value of AUD 85000 and AUD 2 million public liability. Deductible is 1% of hull value. (1 AUD is about 0.65 USD and about 0.4 GBP) |
#16
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"Ron Natalie" wrote in message om...
"misha" wrote in message ... I though that chances of survival are pretty slim in a total loss event in flight - I hope to make it to Eden and not to be too worried about the money part. You can do a lot of damage to the aircraft and still survive. If you have a loan secured by the aircraft, they will almost certianly want insurance to protect their interests by the way. True. In fact, the majority of airplane accidents are not fatal. Been there, done that, was really glad I had hull insurance. John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180) |
#17
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"Montblack" wrote in message .. . If you "own" the plane outright, then your idea MIGHT work out for you ...only if you take those premiums and actually sock them away - just in case something happens. Like an engine reserve account, only this is your hull reserve account - IN THE BANK. You don't even need to maintain the reserve if you can live without a replacement right away. |
#18
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On 10-Jul-2003, "Mike Rapoport" wrote: Obviously the expected rate of return on those investments is much lower than it was three years ago. I think you have identified the primary reason why premiums have been going up recently. Certainly claims costs have not risen as fast. On the other hand, in my case aircraft hull and liability insurance price is still roughly comparable to auto insurance. For $85 hull (zero deductible) and $1M smooth coverage on our Arrow IV we pay around $2200/year. For a car worth about $18K, and adding a reasonable portion of the cost of $1M umbrella liability insurance, I pay about $1100/year ($500 deductible). The key is that all named pilots of the plane have at least several hundred hours and, very significantly, all are instrument rated. I was recently told by an insurance broker that for a typical aircraft owner, the cost of getting an instrument rating (in your own plane) will be returned in less than 3 years by reduced insurance premiums. Has anybody seen their premiums go down after getting their IFR rating? -Elliott Drucker |
#19
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wrote in message ... On 10-Jul-2003, "Mike Rapoport" wrote: Obviously the expected rate of return on those investments is much lower than it was three years ago. I think you have identified the primary reason why premiums have been going up recently. Certainly claims costs have not risen as fast. On the other hand, in my case aircraft hull and liability insurance price is still roughly comparable to auto insurance. For $85 hull (zero deductible) and $1M smooth coverage on our Arrow IV we pay around $2200/year. For a car worth about $18K, and adding a reasonable portion of the cost of $1M umbrella liability insurance, I pay about $1100/year ($500 deductible). The key is that all named pilots of the plane have at least several hundred hours and, very significantly, all are instrument rated. I was recently told by an insurance broker that for a typical aircraft owner, the cost of getting an instrument rating (in your own plane) will be returned in less than 3 years by reduced insurance premiums. Has anybody seen their premiums go down after getting their IFR rating? -Elliott Drucker To return the cost if an instrument rating in 3 years the insurance company would have to pay me about $1,000 a year. Not going to happen. |
#20
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"Javier Henderson" wrote in message ... writes: But that figure might be different for other airplanes (say, hi perf complex, or more expensive, etc). From what I have observed with many students/owners, insurance reductions for any type of ratings or recurrent training are usually negligible. What happens instead is that for certain combinations of airplane and pilot experience, the insurers simply refuse to write the policies at all unless the pilots get an instrument rating or undergo recurrent training. As the insurance market tightens, one effect is that insurers have also begun requiring recurrent training on more and more airplanes. This does not mean that these pilots get a discount for their recurrent training; the training simply becomes a condition of insurance. -- Richard Kaplan, CFII www.flyimc.com |
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