C172 and Spins

"Roger" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:38:38 -0400, Dudley Henriques
wrote:

Dan wrote:
Anyone else have expereince with the C172E (1964)?

No matter what I did I could not get that bird to spin to the right.

Left spins take some work, and power helps (of course).

But right it just wallows and then steep spirals.



Dan Mc
Try accelerating the stall a bit just before reaching the 1g stall point .
Decelerate the airplane carrying just a bit of power into the stall,
then just before it would break naturally, apply aggressive pitch, as
the stall breaks, apply full pro-spin rudder. It should break a lot
cleaner and right into the spin; assuming normal rigging.

Of course an extra bit of enthusiasm could lead to a snap roll. :-))
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Hi Roger,

That is understandable. Of course, a snap roll is just a spin in a
different direction! :-) It is the only way to roll in an old Citabria with
no spades. Otherwise your arm wears out holding that aileron pressure! :-)

Highflyer
Highflight Aviation Services
Pinckneyville Airport PJY

"Tina" wrote in message
...
Some SEL airplanes are not certified for spins. I assume the 172 isn't
in that group.

Hi Tina,

Depends on the 172. Most, but not all, C172's were certified in both the
Normal and the Utility categories. The Normal category does not require
spin recoveries for certification. If you spin an airplane in that
certification category you become an instant test pilot! :-) The Utility
category requires spins and spin recoveries for certification and aircraft
in the Utility category can be spun.

Many GA airplanes are certified in both categories, but the Utility category
has a more restrictive weight and balance limitation. Lower weight, and
more forward CG range.

The old straight tail Cessnas would spin nicely. Then they slanted the tail
back for cosmetic reasons and shot themselves in the foot aerodynamically.
Now the bulk of the rudder is in the shade of the stabilizer in a spin and
the airplanes do not enter well or spin as well. They may also not want to
pop out of a fully developed spin. Most failed spin attempts will result in
a high speed spiral and you can build excessive speed quickly and then must
be very careful pulling out of the resulting dive so that you do not
overstress the aircraft at a speed well above maneuvering speed.

Highflyer
Highflight Aviation Services
Pinckneyville Airport PJY

In article ,
says...
Roger wrote:
On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:38:38 -0400, Dudley Henriques
wrote:

Dan wrote:
Anyone else have expereince with the C172E (1964)?

No matter what I did I could not get that bird to spin to the right.

Left spins take some work, and power helps (of course).

But right it just wallows and then steep spirals.



Dan Mc
Try accelerating the stall a bit just before reaching the 1g stall point .
Decelerate the airplane carrying just a bit of power into the stall,
then just before it would break naturally, apply aggressive pitch, as
the stall breaks, apply full pro-spin rudder. It should break a lot
cleaner and right into the spin; assuming normal rigging.

Of course an extra bit of enthusiasm could lead to a snap roll. :-))
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com


Timing Rog....TIMING!!! With women and flying.......it's all in the
TIMING!!!! :-)))

Question on this - snap rolls can put some big strains on the a/c - so I
presume the a/c (most 172's I've flown, actually make that *all* - are
in the normal cat, not utility) - is aerobatic? - or at least in the
utility category?

I snap rolled a Traumahawk years ago when I performed a stall turn
(himmelman (sp?) - call it what you like) - when I whacked the rudder
in while I was (obviously) still above stall speed. I ended up flick
rolling and upside down and recovered just fine - but it scared the chit
out of me (the turning force was really quite considerable).

Opinions?

--
Duncan

Dave Doe wrote:
In article ,
says...
Roger wrote:
On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:38:38 -0400, Dudley Henriques
wrote:

Dan wrote:
Anyone else have expereince with the C172E (1964)?

No matter what I did I could not get that bird to spin to the right.

Left spins take some work, and power helps (of course).

But right it just wallows and then steep spirals.



Dan Mc
Try accelerating the stall a bit just before reaching the 1g stall point .
Decelerate the airplane carrying just a bit of power into the stall,
then just before it would break naturally, apply aggressive pitch, as
the stall breaks, apply full pro-spin rudder. It should break a lot
cleaner and right into the spin; assuming normal rigging.
Of course an extra bit of enthusiasm could lead to a snap roll. :-))
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Timing Rog....TIMING!!! With women and flying.......it's all in the
TIMING!!!! :-)))

Question on this - snap rolls can put some big strains on the a/c - so I
presume the a/c (most 172's I've flown, actually make that *all* - are
in the normal cat, not utility) - is aerobatic? - or at least in the
utility category?

I snap rolled a Traumahawk years ago when I performed a stall turn
(himmelman (sp?) - call it what you like) - when I whacked the rudder
in while I was (obviously) still above stall speed. I ended up flick
rolling and upside down and recovered just fine - but it scared the chit
out of me (the turning force was really quite considerable).

Opinions?

Only one. Don't snap a normal OR a utility category airplane. It ain't
healthy! :-)) Neither category comes near meeting aerobatic category
standards.
I would strongly suggest from reading what you say you were doing with a
Tomahawk that you not continue that practice PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

--
Dudley Henriques

In article ,
says...
Dave Doe wrote:
In article ,
says...
Roger wrote:
On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:38:38 -0400, Dudley Henriques
wrote:

Dan wrote:
Anyone else have expereince with the C172E (1964)?

No matter what I did I could not get that bird to spin to the right.

Left spins take some work, and power helps (of course).

But right it just wallows and then steep spirals.



Dan Mc
Try accelerating the stall a bit just before reaching the 1g stall point .
Decelerate the airplane carrying just a bit of power into the stall,
then just before it would break naturally, apply aggressive pitch, as
the stall breaks, apply full pro-spin rudder. It should break a lot
cleaner and right into the spin; assuming normal rigging.
Of course an extra bit of enthusiasm could lead to a snap roll. :-))
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Timing Rog....TIMING!!! With women and flying.......it's all in the
TIMING!!!! :-)))

Question on this - snap rolls can put some big strains on the a/c - so I
presume the a/c (most 172's I've flown, actually make that *all* - are
in the normal cat, not utility) - is aerobatic? - or at least in the
utility category?

I snap rolled a Traumahawk years ago when I performed a stall turn
(himmelman (sp?) - call it what you like) - when I whacked the rudder
in while I was (obviously) still above stall speed. I ended up flick
rolling and upside down and recovered just fine - but it scared the chit
out of me (the turning force was really quite considerable).

Opinions?

Only one. Don't snap a normal OR a utility category airplane. It ain't
healthy! :-)) Neither category comes near meeting aerobatic category
standards.
I would strongly suggest from reading what you say you were doing with a
Tomahawk that you not continue that practice PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I *did* say it was years ago, about 20 to be more accurate.

Still, the main question remains unanswered - re the 172 as posted by
the OP.
--
Duncan

Dave Doe wrote:
In article ,
says...
Dave Doe wrote:
In article ,
says...
Roger wrote:
On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:38:38 -0400, Dudley Henriques
wrote:

Dan wrote:
Anyone else have expereince with the C172E (1964)?

No matter what I did I could not get that bird to spin to the right.

Left spins take some work, and power helps (of course).

But right it just wallows and then steep spirals.



Dan Mc
Try accelerating the stall a bit just before reaching the 1g stall point .
Decelerate the airplane carrying just a bit of power into the stall,
then just before it would break naturally, apply aggressive pitch, as
the stall breaks, apply full pro-spin rudder. It should break a lot
cleaner and right into the spin; assuming normal rigging.
Of course an extra bit of enthusiasm could lead to a snap roll. :-))
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
Timing Rog....TIMING!!! With women and flying.......it's all in the
TIMING!!!! :-)))
Question on this - snap rolls can put some big strains on the a/c - so I
presume the a/c (most 172's I've flown, actually make that *all* - are
in the normal cat, not utility) - is aerobatic? - or at least in the
utility category?

I snap rolled a Traumahawk years ago when I performed a stall turn
(himmelman (sp?) - call it what you like) - when I whacked the rudder
in while I was (obviously) still above stall speed. I ended up flick
rolling and upside down and recovered just fine - but it scared the chit
out of me (the turning force was really quite considerable).

Opinions?

Only one. Don't snap a normal OR a utility category airplane. It ain't
healthy! :-)) Neither category comes near meeting aerobatic category
standards.
I would strongly suggest from reading what you say you were doing with a
Tomahawk that you not continue that practice PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I *did* say it was years ago, about 20 to be more accurate.

Still, the main question remains unanswered - re the 172 as posted by
the OP.
What remains to be unanswered? Can you be specific please?

--
Dudley Henriques

On Mar 18, 5:40 pm, Dan wrote:
On Mar 18, 8:57 pm, Roger wrote:

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:38:38 -0400, Dudley Henriques

wrote:
Dan wrote:
Anyone else have expereince with the C172E (1964)?

No matter what I did I could not get that bird to spin to the right.

Left spins take some work, and power helps (of course).

But right it just wallows and then steep spirals.

Dan Mc
Try accelerating the stall a bit just before reaching the 1g stall point .
Decelerate the airplane carrying just a bit of power into the stall,
then just before it would break naturally, apply aggressive pitch, as
the stall breaks, apply full pro-spin rudder. It should break a lot
cleaner and right into the spin; assuming normal rigging.

Of course an extra bit of enthusiasm could lead to a snap roll. :-))
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)www.rogerhalstead.com

An enthusiastic Cross control stall has the same effect.

"Hey, I'm right side up!"
"Hey, I'm upside down!"

Now you're talking!
Do a 180 roll, then stall, and watch the heading
indicator do a fast 180, (The attitude indicator is
having a fit), as you recover from a spiral dive.
Most Flight Instructors are sissy pilots, that's
how I qualify them, by how much they shreak.
Ken

On Mar 18, 11:07 pm, Dave Doe wrote:
In article ,
says...



Dave Doe wrote:
In article ,
says...
Roger wrote:
On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:38:38 -0400, Dudley Henriques
wrote:

Dan wrote:
Anyone else have expereince with the C172E (1964)?

No matter what I did I could not get that bird to spin to the right.

Left spins take some work, and power helps (of course).

But right it just wallows and then steep spirals.

Dan Mc
Try accelerating the stall a bit just before reaching the 1g stall point .
Decelerate the airplane carrying just a bit of power into the stall,
then just before it would break naturally, apply aggressive pitch, as
the stall breaks, apply full pro-spin rudder. It should break a lot
cleaner and right into the spin; assuming normal rigging.
Of course an extra bit of enthusiasm could lead to a snap roll. :-))
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Timing Rog....TIMING!!! With women and flying.......it's all in the
TIMING!!!! :-)))

Question on this - snap rolls can put some big strains on the a/c - so I
presume the a/c (most 172's I've flown, actually make that *all* - are
in the normal cat, not utility) - is aerobatic? - or at least in the
utility category?

I snap rolled a Traumahawk years ago when I performed a stall turn
(himmelman (sp?) - call it what you like) - when I whacked the rudder
in while I was (obviously) still above stall speed. I ended up flick
rolling and upside down and recovered just fine - but it scared the chit
out of me (the turning force was really quite considerable).

Opinions?

Only one. Don't snap a normal OR a utility category airplane. It ain't
healthy! :-)) Neither category comes near meeting aerobatic category
standards.
I would strongly suggest from reading what you say you were doing with a
Tomahawk that you not continue that practice PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I *did* say it was years ago, about 20 to be more accurate.

Still, the main question remains unanswered - re the 172 as posted by
the OP.
--
Duncan


You must have missed Dudley's reply.

The technique works.

I'm the OP, and I approved this message.

Dan Mc

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...
Dave Doe wrote:
In article ,
says...
Dave Doe wrote:
In article ,
says...
---------------some sniped---------------
I snap rolled a Traumahawk years ago when I performed a stall turn
(himmelman (sp?) - call it what you like) - when I whacked the rudder
in while I was (obviously) still above stall speed. I ended up flick
rolling and upside down and recovered just fine - but it scared the
chit out of me (the turning force was really quite considerable).

Opinions?

Only one. Don't snap a normal OR a utility category airplane. It ain't
healthy! :-)) Neither category comes near meeting aerobatic category
standards.
I would strongly suggest from reading what you say you were doing with a
Tomahawk that you not continue that practice PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I *did* say it was years ago, about 20 to be more accurate.

Still, the main question remains unanswered - re the 172 as posted by the
OP.
What remains to be unanswered? Can you be specific please?
--
Dudley Henriques

Just guessing, but I really don't think he was attempting an Emmelman or was
even all that far above the normal stall speed--it seems more likely that he
was just trying to duplicate the "turn to final" scenario and added some
bottom rudder at the entry of an accellerated stall.

Peter

Dan wrote:
On Mar 18, 11:07 pm, Dave Doe wrote:
In article ,
says...



Dave Doe wrote:
In article ,
says...
Roger wrote:
On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:38:38 -0400, Dudley Henriques
wrote:
Dan wrote:
Anyone else have expereince with the C172E (1964)?
No matter what I did I could not get that bird to spin to the right.
Left spins take some work, and power helps (of course).
But right it just wallows and then steep spirals.
Dan Mc
Try accelerating the stall a bit just before reaching the 1g stall point .
Decelerate the airplane carrying just a bit of power into the stall,
then just before it would break naturally, apply aggressive pitch, as
the stall breaks, apply full pro-spin rudder. It should break a lot
cleaner and right into the spin; assuming normal rigging.
Of course an extra bit of enthusiasm could lead to a snap roll. :-))
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
Timing Rog....TIMING!!! With women and flying.......it's all in the
TIMING!!!! :-)))
Question on this - snap rolls can put some big strains on the a/c - so I
presume the a/c (most 172's I've flown, actually make that *all* - are
in the normal cat, not utility) - is aerobatic? - or at least in the
utility category?
I snap rolled a Traumahawk years ago when I performed a stall turn
(himmelman (sp?) - call it what you like) - when I whacked the rudder
in while I was (obviously) still above stall speed. I ended up flick
rolling and upside down and recovered just fine - but it scared the chit
out of me (the turning force was really quite considerable).
Opinions?
Only one. Don't snap a normal OR a utility category airplane. It ain't
healthy! :-)) Neither category comes near meeting aerobatic category
standards.
I would strongly suggest from reading what you say you were doing with a
Tomahawk that you not continue that practice PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I *did* say it was years ago, about 20 to be more accurate.

Still, the main question remains unanswered - re the 172 as posted by
the OP.
--
Duncan


You must have missed Dudley's reply.

The technique works.

I'm the OP, and I approved this message.

Dan Mc

Yes, but did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night?
:-))

--
Dudley Henriques