How do we inspire pilots to truly take up cross country soaring ?

On Sunday, 30 August 2015 12:01:25 UTC-6, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
Sorry if this has already been covered as I am late to this party. How about having more xc camps with structured learning and someone to follow around a course. I know when I started to fly xc I was frustrated by the lack of any structured learning. I asked several xc pilots where I was flying if they could take me around a course and teach me a few things, every one said I have to keep up with them. I searched away from my glider port to find instructors who would take me xc. I flew a Grob 109 on a simulated course then found an instructor in the Sierras who took me on a long flight in a Janus. Then I started out on my own usually not getting more than 50 to 75 miles away finally I started doing the long flights. I had to seek out training from three different glider operations to get all the training and skill I thought I needed to be safe and competent to fly xc far from home base. Believe it or not Bill Bartel actually took several days off work to show me around the flying in Arizona. I had been flying xc for about a year or two already, still so much to learn. I still remember Bill opening his airbrakes to come back down to my height in the thermal to thermal up again with me.

We have many sanctioned contests and much emphasis on this news group and in Soaring Magazine is about racing. In addition to having a race committee how about having a pilot development committee. Hold multiple sanctioned youth, women, family day and xc flying meets with activities for all and a training syllabus. Just a thought

Jonathan, make it happen. DO not just talk about it with a keyboard make it happen. Remember that we are they

On Sunday, August 30, 2015 at 8:48:57 PM UTC-4, Ron Gleason wrote:
On Sunday, 30 August 2015 12:01:25 UTC-6, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
Sorry if this has already been covered as I am late to this party. How about having more xc camps with structured learning and someone to follow around a course. I know when I started to fly xc I was frustrated by the lack of any structured learning. I asked several xc pilots where I was flying if they could take me around a course and teach me a few things, every one said I have to keep up with them. I searched away from my glider port to find instructors who would take me xc. I flew a Grob 109 on a simulated course then found an instructor in the Sierras who took me on a long flight in a Janus. Then I started out on my own usually not getting more than 50 to 75 miles away finally I started doing the long flights. I had to seek out training from three different glider operations to get all the training and skill I thought I needed to be safe and competent to fly xc far from home base. Believe it or not Bill Bartel actually took several days off work to show me around the flying in Arizona. I had been flying xc for about a year or two already, still so much to learn. I still remember Bill opening his airbrakes to come back down to my height in the thermal to thermal up again with me.

We have many sanctioned contests and much emphasis on this news group and in Soaring Magazine is about racing. In addition to having a race committee how about having a pilot development committee. Hold multiple sanctioned youth, women, family day and xc flying meets with activities for all and a training syllabus. Just a thought

Jonathan, make it happen. DO not just talk about it with a keyboard make it happen. Remember that we are they

This group is full of great thinkers, but pretty thin on doers. My impression is that they think we're short of idea guys.
I get to editorialize because I do at least one training event each year.
UH

Wow, tough crowd. Even the header asks for ideas "How do we inspire pilots to truly take up cross country soaring?" So I presented a few ideas and get dis'd for the effort.

Perhaps the poster below does not understand the purpose of an interrogative? And this tread specifically requests ideas.

On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 5:12:41 AM UTC-7, wrote:


This group is full of great thinkers, but pretty thin on doers. My impression is that they think we're short of idea guys.
I get to editorialize because I do at least one training event each year.
UH

Jonathan (if that's your real name), it's hard for a long established group to take seriously an unknown newcomer who offers shop-worn advice on one of the most difficult challenges in soaring. UH has not only been talking the talk but walking the walk for decades. You are of course free to express your opinions, but don't complain when your ignorance earns you a rebuke.

-John, Q3

On Wednesday, September 2, 2015 at 11:01:23 PM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
Wow, tough crowd. Even the header asks for ideas "How do we inspire pilots to truly take up cross country soaring?" So I presented a few ideas and get dis'd for the effort.

Perhaps the poster below does not understand the purpose of an interrogative? And this tread specifically requests ideas.

On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 5:12:41 AM UTC-7, wrote:


This group is full of great thinkers, but pretty thin on doers. My impression is that they think we're short of idea guys.
I get to editorialize because I do at least one training event each year.
UH

The British held their annual Junior National Championships last week.
http://www.soaringspot.com/en/uk-jun...wn-2015/pilots

SEVENTY SIX Junior pilots entered the event. Say that with me slowly.... S E V E N T Y S I X. Britian is a country of 63 million. Roughly 1/6 of the United States. If seventy six jr pilots are attending their Jr nationals, what does that say about the health of their youth programs? What does that say about the growth and development of British soaring? How many youth pilots are training within the British soaring system with the goal of one day competing with their peers in a major, highly prestigious and recognized Jr Narionals competition? Imagine the social events at this contest? Imagine the bonds that it creates. The enthusiasm it creates? Imagine the learning and personal development the Jrs experience.

Meanwhile, back In the USA, a country of some 330 million, we have 3 or 4 Jrs who competed in adult contests this year. we do not hold Jr contests anymore. I can't tell you the last time we did. And we wonder why we are having problems. This is a disaster and we are completely blind.

We need to be FAR smarter. We need our best people absolutely focused on this. We need a strategy. We need leadership. We need to put more effort into this problem. WE NEED ALL HANDS ON DECK! This should be, without question, the # 1 problem to be worked on at all levels of the SSA and soaring clubs. It simply IS NOT. We are failing, miserably.

The SSA has a growth and development committee. It gets very little attention. I think we need to put a lot more effort into this commitee. Perhaps 10x more. This is without question the most important topic within the SSA because, frankly stated, the sport of soaring is a disaster in the U.S. right now in terms of growth.

For starters, I think we need a monthly column in the soaring magazine, a dedicated website and dramatically more focus. We should not be worried about ADSB 1/10th as much as we are worried about growth, youth participation, etc. ADSB of course just saw the front page of Soaring Magazine. When was the last time our monthly publication addressed growth on its cover?

I am very frustrated by our present course. It's a shame.

Sean
7T

Dear John, you are missing The point. As you stated I am somewhat of a new comer, hence I was unaware the idea presented was so obvious it not merit mentioning. Yes, it is my real name. The post asked for ideas! UH, while a legend chided me for presenting an idea, actually writing "my impression if that they think we're short of idea guys". If stifling ideas in any form is a good way to coming up with new ideas I would be interested in learning how you came to this conclusion. Back in the corporate world we had brainstorming sessions, no idea how well worn or however "silly" was discounted as you never know what series of ideas or questions about that idea will grow into the desired result. "If you change the way you think about things, the things you think about change". Maybe a new comer rehashing old ideas is not so bad. What is bad is stifling any idea, or anyone willing to take the time to write an idea.



On Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 8:35:20 AM UTC-7, John Carlyle wrote:
Jonathan (if that's your real name), it's hard for a long established group to take seriously an unknown newcomer who offers shop-worn advice on one of the most difficult challenges in soaring. UH has not only been talking the talk but walking the walk for decades. You are of course free to express your opinions, but don't complain when your ignorance earns you a rebuke.

-John, Q3

Jonathan, here's the thing: in the case of soaring being unable to attract new XC pilots there is nothing new under the sun. Every idea mentioned in this thread (plus many others) has been tried. The brainstorming has been done- yet we still can't reverse the trend.

Unfortunately, this cycle is part of sports and leisure activities. How many new boxers are there? How many new jockeys? How many new ice boaters? How many new scullers (did you know that in the 1920s sculling was broadcast on national radio)? Interest ebbs, and there isn't a magic bullet to reverse it.

Realistically all we can try is more one-on-one personal interaction, and maybe the other activities that are enticing potential XC pilots from soaring will ebb in their popularity. I've helped pique the interest of some new XC pilots by engaging with them, if other pilots do the same perhaps we'll made headway.

-John, Q3

On Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 12:53:08 PM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
Dear John, you are missing The point. As you stated I am somewhat of a new comer, hence I was unaware the idea presented was so obvious it not merit mentioning. Yes, it is my real name. The post asked for ideas! UH, while a legend chided me for presenting an idea, actually writing "my impression if that they think we're short of idea guys". If stifling ideas in any form is a good way to coming up with new ideas I would be interested in learning how you came to this conclusion. Back in the corporate world we had brainstorming sessions, no idea how well worn or however "silly" was discounted as you never know what series of ideas or questions about that idea will grow into the desired result. "If you change the way you think about things, the things you think about change". Maybe a new comer rehashing old ideas is not so bad. What is bad is stifling any idea, or anyone willing to take the time to write an idea.

Hmmm. I do not believe that everything has been done to improve soaring participation in the USA. In my opinion, clearly, we are focusing on the wrong goals. I would argue that we have been executing a very poor high-level strategy (or perhaps NO STRATEGY). Growing soaring in the USA is, in my opinion, an achievable goal. We MUST achieve it in fact. Stating (basically) that it is not possible is an unfortunate thing to say. I'm truly sorry that you feel this way.

I'm sure that it is frustrating when you have probably been an excellent promoter in the area's that you could affect. To see the national numbers continue to slowly fade is painful for all of us to watch, especially the ones who put a lot effort in locally. I think local, individual efforts are simply not enough. We need national leadership and a coordinated approach (between clubs, regions and the SSA). We need careful attention, and constant care and feeding. We need to become inspired again, and very smart marketing to maintain it. We need a clear, bold strategy that the entire national soaring community is truly invested in and pays attention to.

Again, for example, Great Britain just had roughly 60 (the same attendance as our largest US contests, the Seniors and Perry) in their 2015 Junior National Championship last week. This is an incredible statistic. Britain has 1/6 the USA's population! This should be making our heads explode. It is basically unacceptable. The United States largest contest is a Seniors event. Britains largest contest might be a junior event! Wow! Incredible. How do they do this? We should be studying them like a science book. We should be emulating. When are the US East Coast junior Nationals next year? When are the US West Coast junior Nationals? Where are the junior Contest pilots in the USA Britain's soaring community must compete with all the same leisure activities, smartphones, video games, economic downturns, etc that we do here in the USA. They have the same competition from major sports and their busy lives, etc. Regardless, those excuses do not seem to impact their junior numbers even though they have only 1/6 the population to draw from. Essentially, the US should be able to run junior nationals on 2 coasts and still have roughly 3x the population to draw from in each event when compared to Britain!

The problem with the USA's soaring growth is, plain and simply, us. We have collectively failed, long ago and up until now, to focus on these challenges and address them effectively. Today we are paying the price. In fact, we have essentially stopped trying altogether.

This topic should not contained in a RAS thread. It should be front and center in SSA committee meetings, it should be front and center at the upcoming SSA convention, it should be front and center at the clubs, it should be front and center at the contests, etc.

We need to wake up and open our eyes. We need to organize ourselves and get this addressed and moving in the right direction. We need to build a strategy, set some short and long term goals and manage towards them. We need this challenge to be our TOP PRIORITY at every level.

We need a thriving youth soaring scene in the US or the sport is going to die.

Sean
7T

On Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 7:51:13 PM UTC-4, John Carlyle wrote:
Jonathan, here's the thing: in the case of soaring being unable to attract new XC pilots there is nothing new under the sun. Every idea mentioned in this thread (plus many others) has been tried. The brainstorming has been done- yet we still can't reverse the trend.

Unfortunately, this cycle is part of sports and leisure activities. How many new boxers are there? How many new jockeys? How many new ice boaters? How many new scullers (did you know that in the 1920s sculling was broadcast on national radio)? Interest ebbs, and there isn't a magic bullet to reverse it.

Realistically all we can try is more one-on-one personal interaction, and maybe the other activities that are enticing potential XC pilots from soaring will ebb in their popularity. I've helped pique the interest of some new XC pilots by engaging with them, if other pilots do the same perhaps we'll made headway.

-John, Q3

On Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 12:53:08 PM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
Dear John, you are missing The point. As you stated I am somewhat of a new comer, hence I was unaware the idea presented was so obvious it not merit mentioning. Yes, it is my real name. The post asked for ideas! UH, while a legend chided me for presenting an idea, actually writing "my impression if that they think we're short of idea guys". If stifling ideas in any form is a good way to coming up with new ideas I would be interested in learning how you came to this conclusion. Back in the corporate world we had brainstorming sessions, no idea how well worn or however "silly" was discounted as you never know what series of ideas or questions about that idea will grow into the desired result. "If you change the way you think about things, the things you think about change". Maybe a new comer rehashing old ideas is not so bad. What is bad is stifling any idea, or anyone willing to take the time to write an idea.

Well stated and it is appropriate to be concerned! We have lost two soaring site in the last 13 years in Southern Cal, plus untold number of pilots.

SSA does need to to focus on this matter as a number one priority!

On Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 8:58:32 PM UTC-7, Sean Fidler wrote:
Hmmm. I do not believe that everything has been done to improve soaring participation in the USA. In my opinion, clearly, we are focusing on the wrong goals. I would argue that we have been executing a very poor high-level strategy (or perhaps NO STRATEGY). Growing soaring in the USA is, in my opinion, an achievable goal. We MUST achieve it in fact. Stating (basically) that it is not possible is an unfortunate thing to say. I'm truly sorry that you feel this way.

I'm sure that it is frustrating when you have probably been an excellent promoter in the area's that you could affect. To see the national numbers continue to slowly fade is painful for all of us to watch, especially the ones who put a lot effort in locally. I think local, individual efforts are simply not enough. We need national leadership and a coordinated approach (between clubs, regions and the SSA). We need careful attention, and constant care and feeding. We need to become inspired again, and very smart marketing to maintain it. We need a clear, bold strategy that the entire national soaring community is truly invested in and pays attention to.

Again, for example, Great Britain just had roughly 60 (the same attendance as our largest US contests, the Seniors and Perry) in their 2015 Junior National Championship last week. This is an incredible statistic. Britain has 1/6 the USA's population! This should be making our heads explode. It is basically unacceptable. The United States largest contest is a Seniors event. Britains largest contest might be a junior event! Wow! Incredible. How do they do this? We should be studying them like a science book. We should be emulating. When are the US East Coast junior Nationals next year? When are the US West Coast junior Nationals? Where are the junior Contest pilots in the USA Britain's soaring community must compete with all the same leisure activities, smartphones, video games, economic downturns, etc that we do here in the USA. They have the same competition from major sports and their busy lives, etc. Regardless, those excuses do not seem to impact their junior numbers even though they have only 1/6 the population to draw from. Essentially, the US should be able to run junior nationals on 2 coasts and still have roughly 3x the population to draw from in each event when compared to Britain!

The problem with the USA's soaring growth is, plain and simply, us. We have collectively failed, long ago and up until now, to focus on these challenges and address them effectively. Today we are paying the price. In fact, we have essentially stopped trying altogether.

This topic should not contained in a RAS thread. It should be front and center in SSA committee meetings, it should be front and center at the upcoming SSA convention, it should be front and center at the clubs, it should be front and center at the contests, etc.

We need to wake up and open our eyes. We need to organize ourselves and get this addressed and moving in the right direction. We need to build a strategy, set some short and long term goals and manage towards them. We need this challenge to be our TOP PRIORITY at every level.

We need a thriving youth soaring scene in the US or the sport is going to die.

Sean
7T

On Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 7:51:13 PM UTC-4, John Carlyle wrote:
Jonathan, here's the thing: in the case of soaring being unable to attract new XC pilots there is nothing new under the sun. Every idea mentioned in this thread (plus many others) has been tried. The brainstorming has been done- yet we still can't reverse the trend.

Unfortunately, this cycle is part of sports and leisure activities. How many new boxers are there? How many new jockeys? How many new ice boaters? How many new scullers (did you know that in the 1920s sculling was broadcast on national radio)? Interest ebbs, and there isn't a magic bullet to reverse it.

Realistically all we can try is more one-on-one personal interaction, and maybe the other activities that are enticing potential XC pilots from soaring will ebb in their popularity. I've helped pique the interest of some new XC pilots by engaging with them, if other pilots do the same perhaps we'll made headway.

-John, Q3

On Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 12:53:08 PM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
Dear John, you are missing The point. As you stated I am somewhat of a new comer, hence I was unaware the idea presented was so obvious it not merit mentioning. Yes, it is my real name. The post asked for ideas! UH, while a legend chided me for presenting an idea, actually writing "my impression if that they think we're short of idea guys". If stifling ideas in any form is a good way to coming up with new ideas I would be interested in learning how you came to this conclusion. Back in the corporate world we had brainstorming sessions, no idea how well worn or however "silly" was discounted as you never know what series of ideas or questions about that idea will grow into the desired result. "If you change the way you think about things, the things you think about change". Maybe a new comer rehashing old ideas is not so bad. What is bad is stifling any idea, or anyone willing to take the time to write an idea.

I don't think soaring needs to grow much. We don't need, and don't have the capacity for lots of pilots. What we need are a handful of obsessed pilots. Obsessed soaring pilots make the wheel go round. Said this before the big recruitment hurdle is cultural, men no longer command their recreational time. Pool to chose from is never married chaps with no girlfriend or kids or old guys with grown kids.