VFR terminology in Class B

Hello everyone.

Two months ago I flew VFR into Memphis. This was my first time landing at
the primary airport of a Class B. From about 30 miles out, the approach
controller was providing vectors and altitudes to maintain. I was told to
expect runway 27. About seven miles southeast of the airport I was told to
"descend at my discretion." I was not lined up with the runway at this
point, and was not sure if he meant I was just limited to descending or
should intercept the extended centerline. I asked him if I was "cleared for
the visual" and he replied that "cleared for the visual" was an IFR
clearance and I was not IFR. He repeated that I was cleared to "descend at
my discretion." I figured this meant line up and land on 27. I did that
and was handed off to the tower.

At most other towered airports I have been to, the controller always says
something like "enter a 3 mile base for 27" or "report a 3 mile final for
27" or something to that effect. I was expecting the same at Memphis. My
question is: Was the controller correct in this situation to use the phrase
"descend at your discretion."

Thanks for your thoughts.

Matt

"Matt" wrote in message
. net...
Hello everyone.

Two months ago I flew VFR into Memphis. This was my first time landing at
the primary airport of a Class B. From about 30 miles out, the approach
controller was providing vectors and altitudes to maintain. I was told to
expect runway 27. About seven miles southeast of the airport I was told
to "descend at my discretion." I was not lined up with the runway at this
point, and was not sure if he meant I was just limited to descending or
should intercept the extended centerline. I asked him if I was "cleared
for the visual" and he replied that "cleared for the visual" was an IFR
clearance and I was not IFR. He repeated that I was cleared to "descend
at my discretion." I figured this meant line up and land on 27. I did
that and was handed off to the tower.

At most other towered airports I have been to, the controller always says
something like "enter a 3 mile base for 27" or "report a 3 mile final for
27" or something to that effect. I was expecting the same at Memphis. My
question is: Was the controller correct in this situation to use the
phrase "descend at your discretion."

Thanks for your thoughts.

Matt

You said your were southeast. Lining up 7 miles out sounds like several
miles of going out of your way. No sense doing a 3 mile base to a 7 mile
final. In my plane, 7 miles would give other people time to get in before I
got there. Without a specific instruction to line up, I would have continued
on a direct line for the airport until I could do a base for short final.
--
-------------------------------
Travis
Lake N3094P
PWK

"Travis Marlatte" wrote in message
You said your were southeast. Lining up 7 miles out sounds like several
miles of going out of your way. No sense doing a 3 mile base to a 7 mile
final. In my plane, 7 miles would give other people time to get in before
I got there. Without a specific instruction to line up, I would have
continued on a direct line for the airport until I could do a base for
short final.

I mentioned the base and final just as examples of my experiences at other
towered airports. The point is that I did not interpret "descend at your
discretion" to mean "do whatever you want."

"Matt" wrote in message
. net...

I mentioned the base and final just as examples of my experiences at other
towered airports. The point is that I did not interpret "descend at your
discretion" to mean "do whatever you want."

Were you ever assigned any heading, altitude, or route?

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote
Were you ever assigned any heading, altitude, or route?

Yes. He was giving me headings and altitudes to fly, as if I was getting
vectors to the localizer. But I was VFR. Not flying a practice approach.

"Matt" wrote in message
. net...

Yes. He was giving me headings and altitudes to fly, as if I was getting
vectors to the localizer. But I was VFR. Not flying a practice approach.

Perfectly acceptable in Class B airspace. If you were never told to proceed
to the field or resume your own navigation or anything else like that you
just hold the last assigned heading. "Descend at your discretion" would
cancel any previously assigned altitude, but not the heading.

In article ,
"Matt" wrote:

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote
Were you ever assigned any heading, altitude, or route?

Yes. He was giving me headings and altitudes to fly, as if I was getting
vectors to the localizer. But I was VFR. Not flying a practice approach.

If the guy says, "Fly heading 180, maintain 2000", and then sometime later
says, "descend at your discretion", that says to me you're still on an
assigned heading of 180 while you're descending.

If you suspect that doesn't make sense, you could ask, "Do you still need
me on 180?". Presumably that would elicit something like, "Heading and
altitude your discretion", which can be roughly translated as "Stop
bothering me and get yourself to the runway".

Matt wrote:
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote
Were you ever assigned any heading, altitude, or route?

Yes. He was giving me headings and altitudes to fly, as if I was getting
vectors to the localizer. But I was VFR. Not flying a practice approach.



And he may well have been sending you to the localizer but he knew you
weren't IFR and most of his traffic was IFR so he may have planned to
move you through his airspace like you were IFR.

While a pretty good idea in all controlled airspace, in Bravo just do
what ATC tells you unless you think it is unsafe and be ready to defend
that decision.

My question is: Was the controller correct in this situation to use the phrase
"descend at your discretion."

Thanks for your thoughts.

Matt

It's not a matter of whether he was correct or not, he just gave you
the option of staying at your present altitude or descending. At 7
miles out you'd just continue on the assigned heading until switched
over to tower who might then have you join the left base or make a
straight in approach. Asking if you were cleared for the visual was
just a minor gaffe on your part - I've heard and done worse. Sometimes
you'll be surprised what you'll hear when expecting something else.

Kingfish wrote:
It's not a matter of whether he was correct or not, he just gave you
the option of staying at your present altitude or descending.

And sometimes that's their way of telling you "you're pretty close, you'd
better start descending now!"

.... Alan
--
Alan Gerber
PP-ASEL
gerber AT panix DOT com