More Katrina

"Dan Luke" wrote:
Holy ****.

This is far worse than we were being told even this morning. Whole
sections of Biloxi are leveled. Multi-story casinos have been driven
all the way across Hwy 90 and into neighborhoods. It looks like the
city has been carpet bombed.

Hancock County, to the west of Biloxi, is expected to be *worse*! How
that could be possible, I do not know.


The damage is exactly what knowledgeable people would expect from a
strong cat 4 or marginal cat 5 hurricane hitting such an area.
Welcome to Hurricane Reality 101.

The lesson has been taught many times in the past but it is a lesson
conveniently forgotten by many. Indeed, sometimes the lesson is never
learned in the first place. I just saw an interview on TV with a
woman whose wood frame house was reduced to rubble by Katrina. She
remarked, "We made it through Camille so I thought we could make it
through this one". What she didn't realize, and what most people
don't realize, is that a mere 10 miles one way or the other in cat 4
or 5 hurricane can mean the difference between total destruction or
just a few tree limbs down. In truth, that lady didn't "make it
through Camille", she made it through the periphery of Camille. She,
like most, didn't understand the difference. It's a crap shoot, and
those who win the bet a few times and escape the eye wall often become
emboldened and mistakenly believe that they know what hurricanes are
all about. Yesterday, such ignorance killed hundreds of people.

The levee breach and the resulting flooding of New Orleans is a sad
testament to man's arrogance in trying to re-engineer nature. With
upwards of 50,000 people remaining in a city with no functional
plumbing, the flooded streets will soon be awash with sewage and other
contaminates. Potable water is scarce. Widespread disease and
pestilence could follow. Hundreds have died and thousands more may
die. There are more than 25,000 people in a Superdome with no
functional plumbing. They must be evacuated immediately. The water
level in the streets is rising as the basin pumps fail one by one.
The true scope of this disaster on a human scale is only beginning to
be played out. The official response so far has been underwhelming.
A much larger mobilization is needed.

Meanwhile, president Bush is at a Naval Air Station in Colorado making
a speech in which he compares his administration's politically
motivated hegemony in Iraq with WW2. "Once again we will not rest
until victory is America's and our freedom is secure." Any American
who buys in to such bull**** is a ****ing idiot.

On 2005-08-30, Dan Luke wrote:

"N93332" wrote:

And now Dubya says he's going to cut his vacation short to go and view
the damage. That's all they need, a TFR to shut down all the
helicopter rescue operations...

Would you expect the President *not* to come down to the scene of a
disaster of this magnitude?

No, but for all else concerned (rescuers, relief workers etc.) he would
be doing everyone a favour if he stayed away. Making the flight
environment more difficult for helicopter crews is NOT helpful.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

On 2005-08-31, W P Dixon wrote:
Well he is in the political Catch 22. If the Pres does go people will bitch,
and if he doesn't people will bitch and say he doesn't care.

If the President is indeed strong, he will Do The Right Thing - not the
political thing. The Right Thing at this moment in time, I wager, is to
not get in the way. If necessary, he can explain why he is keeping away
- then the people criticising him will look rather pathetic that they
essentially want rescue work to be intefered with.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

George Patterson wrote:
N93332 wrote:

That's all they need, a TFR to shut down all the helicopter rescue
operations...

They put TFRs in place this afternoon.
http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsite...50830tfrs.html

4 planes busted his left coast TFR on Tuesday... News said nobody was
arrested. FOXnews scrolled something about shooting planes down in DC
again. Didn't see it repeated and only caught the tailend of it one time...

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 02:21:26 GMT, George Patterson
wrote:

N93332 wrote:

That's all they need, a TFR to shut down all the helicopter rescue
operations...

They put TFRs in place this afternoon.
http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsite...50830tfrs.html

None of which are for the visit. "The TFRs extend from the surface to
5,000 feet agl. Additional TFRs may be established when President Bush
travels to the area to survey the damage. He is expected to tour the
area later this week." The TFRs text themselves say "TO PROVIDE A
SAFE ENVIRONMENT FOR HURRICANE DISASTER RELIEF AIRCRAFT OPERATIONS".

"Dylan Smith" wrote

No, but for all else concerned (rescuers, relief workers etc.) he would
be doing everyone a favour if he stayed away. Making the flight
environment more difficult for helicopter crews is NOT helpful.

IMHO, people, in such dire situations, EXPECT the president to show concern
by making an appearance, be he Democrat, or Republican. It is tradition,
and expected. It will be a quick trip, in and out.

Not to show would be like your dad not coming to see you in the hospital.
Not much class.
--
Jim in NC

Well TL, quite a diatribe... I do not disagree with the basic premise
of your argument about some people being blind to reality and basically
stupid... Which is exactly what shows in your twisting about at the end
to make this storm and your diatribe an excuse for a political attack
upon the president, complete with vulgar language...
Whether you agree or disagree with the Bush administration starting a
war in Iraq has absolutely nothing to do with the extent of the damage
from the hurricane or the response of the local and federal
governmental units to that disaster... You would be better off, and so
would we, if you take your political crap and your cursing off this
newsgroup and go inhabit one of the politcal forums...

Dennis o'Connor
Hemlock, Mi

"George Patterson" wrote:

My airplane is stuck in Dothan until they lift the TFR over Mobile.

Well, at least it's safe there, right?

Yes, the decision to fly out was correct, of course. BFM suffered
extensive damage. Teledyne Continental's shop buildings appear to have
lost much of their roofs.

The TFR over the Mobile area seems unnecessary. There is widespread
damage, but not on a scale requiring rescue operatons by aircraft as in
MS and LA.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

Peter Clark wrote:
On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 02:21:26 GMT, George Patterson
wrote:


N93332 wrote:

That's all they need, a TFR to shut down all the helicopter rescue
operations...

They put TFRs in place this afternoon.
http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsite...50830tfrs.html


None of which are for the visit. "The TFRs extend from the surface to
5,000 feet agl. Additional TFRs may be established when President Bush
travels to the area to survey the damage. He is expected to tour the
area later this week." The TFRs text themselves say "TO PROVIDE A
SAFE ENVIRONMENT FOR HURRICANE DISASTER RELIEF AIRCRAFT OPERATIONS".
And all the TFRs make exception for military and police aircraft. Guess
who's doing the rescue flights?

Well, given my antipathy to the unreasonable and uncompensated taking
of the public airspace by the TFR's in the first place my initial
response is to say, "here we go again"... I do see they have limited
this TFR to 5,000' AGL, which is semi reasonable... I would have set
the ceiling at 1000' and over a more limited area if I were the
administrator... The box over New Orleans is reasonable.. The blocked
off coastline is not... I do not see why the TFR has to cover tens of
thousands of square miles... Certainly there is not going to be such a
crowd of rescue aircraft throughout the area that an aircraft passing
through is going to be a safety threat... I see the interminable news
helicopters, who always get permission to fly over a sensitive area,
endlessly buzzing around at a 100 feet to be the far greater threat to
SAR aircraft than the fella who simply needs to pass through the area
on his way to somewhere else...


denny