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Round vs Square E-Chute



 
 
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  #11  
Old June 23rd 18, 03:50 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Default Round vs Square E-Chute

Yes, Mark, the experienced pilot should have no trouble at all flying a
rectangular parachute.

On my first and second jumps, the jump master on the ground rigged a
radio receiver to my chest strap, common for all new students.* I had
difficulty making out the commands and just did the maneuvers briefed
before the jumps.* My wife, at the drop zone, told me that the jump
master said something like, "He's not paying attention to the radio, but
he's doing the maneuvers, so we'll just eliminate the radio."* The
maneuvers he was talking about are simply, turn right, turn left, and flare.

Not intending to be a sport jumper, that's all I needed.* Simply pull
down on the right, or the left, or both toggles.* After an emergency
jump the pilot should look up to check the canopy (either round or
square), clear any malfunctions (about all you can do is kick your legs
and twist at the risers - experienced jumpers can probably add a lot to
this), or in the extreme, cut one or more lines if you have the proper
tool
https://www.ebay.com/itm/US-Air-Force-Parachute-Suspension-Line-Cutter/163102014613?hash=item25f9a33c95:g:-eAAAOSw2q9a55h8.*
I note with sadness that this tool only has the hook blade.* Back in the
day we had both the manual hook blade and a switch blade knife, as well.

The real benefit, in my opinion, is the higher forward speed, IIRC
around 11 kts vs 3 or less for the round canopy, with a 4-line cut or
mesh panel at the back, and the quick steering which gives the user the
ability to fly to a "better" landing area and turn into the wind, or
across the wind, whichever seems better at the time.

On 6/22/2018 9:53 PM, wrote:
To quote my rigger, when asked about a round vs. squa

"A Round will get you down. A Square will get you there."

His opinion is that a square, with better directional control and a lower descent rate is a viable and desirable solution for users (or unwilling victims) who have the basic skills to line up into the wind and execute even a minimal flare as the ground approaches. His advice indicates that proper training is definitely recommended, but since we are supposedly experienced aviators with a healthy desire to make it out alive, it is better to be a Pilot In Command of the emergency equipment. A steerable, lower descent rate square chute will beat any of the semi-steerable round chutes commonly used in the sailplane community. (Provided it is implemented correctly.) Of course, because of the higher forward speed of the square design, the implications of landing downwind are a significant concern. But then attempting to land a "steerable" round in high wind conditions also presents a significant danger of being slammed backwards and then dragged.

My 2000 Paraphernalia Softie is getting close to the manufacturer's 20 year life limit. I know all the pro vs. con arguments, but since it is my own little pink body that is at stake, I intend to replace the old round with a square and take some training.


--
Dan, 5J

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  #12  
Old June 25th 18, 10:59 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Round vs Square E-Chute

I was looking at a friend's round emergency chute over the weekend which was open for inspection - no toggles. It also had no quick release clips to release the chute from the harness - so being dragged by the wind is a likely event. The cute had the most basic modification - just a mesh area at the back of the chute to impart some sort of forward motion. The consensus by the skydivers who were watching the packer inspect it is it will get a pilot down alive. The packer called it a "controlled bounce".

Does an emergency square have toggles?

Clinton
  #13  
Old June 25th 18, 02:16 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Round vs Square E-Chute

On Monday, June 25, 2018 at 5:59:34 AM UTC-4, wrote:
I was looking at a friend's round emergency chute over the weekend which was open for inspection - no toggles. It also had no quick release clips to release the chute from the harness - so being dragged by the wind is a likely event. The cute had the most basic modification - just a mesh area at the back of the chute to impart some sort of forward motion. The consensus by the skydivers who were watching the packer inspect it is it will get a pilot down alive. The packer called it a "controlled bounce".

Does an emergency square have toggles?

Yes. And on a square they actually do something. Toggles on a round just change the direction you face while drifting downwind.
Clinton


  #17  
Old July 2nd 18, 04:42 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Round vs Square E-Chute

On Monday, July 2, 2018 at 11:08:37 AM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
On Monday, June 25, 2018 at 9:16:18 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
I forgot to mention - my wife had our master rigger add toggles to her
National 360.* By looking at the manual I think they're optional.

On 6/25/2018 3:59 AM, wrote:
I was looking at a friend's round emergency chute over the weekend which was open for inspection - no toggles. It also had no quick release clips to release the chute from the harness - so being dragged by the wind is a likely event. The cute had the most basic modification - just a mesh area at the back of the chute to impart some sort of forward motion. The consensus by the skydivers who were watching the packer inspect it is it will get a pilot down alive. The packer called it a "controlled bounce".

Does an emergency square have toggles?

Clinton


--
Dan, 5J


Anyone know if the sport aerobatic pilots use square or round? Way back in the 1990's all the sport aerobatic guys and us war bird guys all flew with round chutes, never even heard a debate on the subject.
Dave mentioned that he deployed his cute while he was face up. Are rounds more forgiving to the position from which they are deployed?

The top acro guys use squares, hobby acro pilots use what's laying around or what they've been sold, same as most glider pilots. Freefall students have been deploying square parachutes in all sorts of body positions for over 30 years, plus over thirty years of unstable square reserve deployments by experienced skydivers. Hundreds of thousands of unstable deployments. If they were worse we'd know. The only reason to sit on a round is because you already have one or you are buying one(cheap) second hand. Squares do everything better.
  #18  
Old July 2nd 18, 06:01 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Andy Blackburn[_3_]
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Default Round vs Square E-Chute

What are the differences in opening speed/altitude by parachute size or shape? The prevalent view on skydiving forums seems to be that smaller and round is the fastest, but, like r.a.s., it's kind of hard to sort who really knows what they are talking about (yes, I'm aware of the irony of asking this question here).

Andy Blackburn
9B
  #19  
Old July 2nd 18, 06:53 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jonathan St. Cloud
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Default Round vs Square E-Chute

On Monday, July 2, 2018 at 10:01:45 AM UTC-7, Andy Blackburn wrote:
What are the differences in opening speed/altitude by parachute size or shape? The prevalent view on skydiving forums seems to be that smaller and round is the fastest, but, like r.a.s., it's kind of hard to sort who really knows what they are talking about (yes, I'm aware of the irony of asking this question here).

Andy Blackburn
9B


RAS also has highly experienced and knowledgeable people who are willing to put up with the BS and help the group as a whole. Andy Blackburn regularly posts here, he is a trained communicator, world class pilot, manager and all around good guy. John Cochrane world class pilot, theoretical mathematician who uses his skills for good. John Fitch, other than his unusual reliance on his iPhone for a glide computer , everything he says one can be sure is well researched, and on point. Darryl Ramm, how many hours has he given this group to help educate all on, FAA alphabet soup. Craig Funston, only posts when he has something to share with the group others had not brought up. We are blessed to have some every knowledge pilots from Europe, Chile, OZ, Australia. Sure there are some packing peanuts around the prize but as in ebay, who you are buying from. And thanks RAS for the all the folks who contribute.
  #20  
Old July 2nd 18, 10:00 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Posts: 284
Default Round vs Square E-Chute

On Monday, July 2, 2018 at 1:01:45 PM UTC-4, Andy Blackburn wrote:
What are the differences in opening speed/altitude by parachute size or shape? The prevalent view on skydiving forums seems to be that smaller and round is the fastest, but, like r.a.s., it's kind of hard to sort who really knows what they are talking about (yes, I'm aware of the irony of asking this question here).

Andy Blackburn
9B


Opening time/distance is a wash. You want to be open higher? Train to get out of your glider and train to find and pull the ripcord. Add a static line.
 




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