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When gliders fail in flight, but pilots manage to land



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 23rd 18, 10:56 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
son_of_flubber
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Default When gliders fail in flight, but pilots manage to land

Bruno Vassel recalls how the control stick broke off in a glider pilot's hand and how that pilot landed the aircraft safely (using rudder to turn and trim to control speed).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF0tTzvU8IM&t=411s

Another favorite scenario is 'one spoiler stuck open'... the pilot opened the other spoiler to match and landed promptly.

Spoilers frozen shut... slip to land.

What else breaks and what if anything could be done about it?

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  #2  
Old June 23rd 18, 11:21 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)
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Default When gliders fail in flight, but pilots manage to land

The list is long and varied........

Way back when, I used to try patterns (at altitude) with no elevator, just use flaps and slips (ASW-20A, manual elevator connect) "just in case" we forgot to connect the elevator.
I have done other, "WTF attempts" in various gliders, all at altitude.

Better to try all sorts of "stupid stuff" at altitude with a high chance of recovery rather than in the pattern.

How about this.....thinking you dumped all water from a ASW-20C, going into a farmers field, things seem wrong, revert to....."does it look right, does it sound right, does it feel right....if no....FRIKKIN fix it!".
I did that in PA once.
Thought water was dumped (we had worked on dump valve the night before), so, fell off the ridge and landed shortly thereafter.
If I went by the book, never would have made the field.
It didn't feel right, so I sped up.
Found a full load of water when I went to derig later.

Yes, good to do "what if's" at altitude (thinking benign spiral when IFR), but you're limited on possible "crap happens" ideas.
  #3  
Old June 24th 18, 12:16 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Roy B.
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Default When gliders fail in flight, but pilots manage to land

Incident report of a '29 that lost all rudder control and managed to climb 2300', glide 65 km, and return to airport of origin for safe landing.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...8hqfT2VRU/edit

ROY
  #4  
Old June 24th 18, 03:12 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Default When gliders fail in flight, but pilots manage to land

Had one dump valve open but not the other (both wings and tail tank
controlled by the same lever).* Landed my LAK-17a with one dry wing and
the other had 25 gallons.* I did not realize I had a problem until just
before coming to a stop when one wing slammed down uncontrollably.*
Speed was down to a slow walk at that time.* Great ship, that LAK-17a!

On 6/23/2018 4:21 PM, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
The list is long and varied........

Way back when, I used to try patterns (at altitude) with no elevator, just use flaps and slips (ASW-20A, manual elevator connect) "just in case" we forgot to connect the elevator.
I have done other, "WTF attempts" in various gliders, all at altitude.

Better to try all sorts of "stupid stuff" at altitude with a high chance of recovery rather than in the pattern.

How about this.....thinking you dumped all water from a ASW-20C, going into a farmers field, things seem wrong, revert to....."does it look right, does it sound right, does it feel right....if no....FRIKKIN fix it!".
I did that in PA once.
Thought water was dumped (we had worked on dump valve the night before), so, fell off the ridge and landed shortly thereafter.
If I went by the book, never would have made the field.
It didn't feel right, so I sped up.
Found a full load of water when I went to derig later.

Yes, good to do "what if's" at altitude (thinking benign spiral when IFR), but you're limited on possible "crap happens" ideas.


--
Dan, 5J
  #5  
Old June 24th 18, 03:59 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jonathan St. Cloud
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Default When gliders fail in flight, but pilots manage to land

On Saturday, June 23, 2018 at 2:56:07 PM UTC-7, son_of_flubber wrote:
Bruno Vassel recalls how the control stick broke off in a glider pilot's hand and how that pilot landed the aircraft safely (using rudder to turn and trim to control speed).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF0tTzvU8IM&t=411s

Another favorite scenario is 'one spoiler stuck open'... the pilot opened the other spoiler to match and landed promptly.

Spoilers frozen shut... slip to land.

What else breaks and what if anything could be done about it?


Didn't ASCSC's SZD-50-3 PUCHACZ, lose a rudder at Warner, land and get back in take-off line up before someone noticed a missing rudder?
  #6  
Old June 24th 18, 06:38 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
RR
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Default When gliders fail in flight, but pilots manage to land

Someone told me once, that if I sailed a triangle with my boat without touching the tiller I would learn a ton about my boat. Very true. So only trimming sails, I sailed with only the sheets. Tacking without the tiller was very interesting. The boat was a 30ft etchells, monohull. I did, indeed, learn a ton.

So I thought I would try it in my glider. I flew a 50k triangle without touching the stick. Half with rudder and flaps, half with rudder alien. Learned a ton.

With flap, it was almost too easy. The flap is like having a low travel elevator.

Trimmed up slightly to allow a 360 turn I could manage wide thermal turns. Going straight with rudder alone I would need to kick rudder near the top of the phugoid oscillation in pitch, to damp it out. So it was a bit more zig zag than straight line.

But fun figuring it all out, and you will learn a lot about your aircraft.
They are all different in there dynamic stability. Mine at the time was a 304cz...
  #7  
Old June 24th 18, 03:08 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Karl Striedieck[_2_]
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Default When gliders fail in flight, but pilots manage to land


If a pilot gets in the air without elevator control all is not lost. For a flapped ship like an ASW-20 there are still three controls that affect pitch/speed: spoilers, flaps and ailerons (roll). The latter will control pitch very easily via varying bank angle. If the nose is going to rise above the desired pitch angle (a little below the horizon) put in some bank until the pitch up stops then roll out the amount needed to maintain a stable glide angle.

For a non-flapped ship, aileron and spoilers are available.

An extreme aft cg makes these alternate control options trickier.

KS

In the case of one spoiler opening in flight (happened to me-ASW-17) slowing to stall speed may allow it to fall closed and stay there if speed is kept low. When the airport is well in reach unload the stick a little to open the lose spoiler and open the connected one for a full spoiler landing.







On Saturday, June 23, 2018 at 5:56:07 PM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
Bruno Vassel recalls how the control stick broke off in a glider pilot's hand and how that pilot landed the aircraft safely (using rudder to turn and trim to control speed).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF0tTzvU8IM&t=411s

Another favorite scenario is 'one spoiler stuck open'... the pilot opened the other spoiler to match and landed promptly.

Spoilers frozen shut... slip to land.

What else breaks and what if anything could be done about it?


  #8  
Old June 24th 18, 03:50 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 422
Default When gliders fail in flight, but pilots manage to land

Thx, KS. From memory, years ago you wrote a piece in Soaring about flying with inoperable controls. If so, could you point us to it? I tried to find it last night using the SSA archives but could not.

JB
  #9  
Old June 24th 18, 05:27 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)
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Default When gliders fail in flight, but pilots manage to land

Good thoughts, thanks.

From what I remember, the most common "loss of a control surface" in flight are usually with glass ships.

-elevator not connected (more common on earlier ships before auto control connect)
-dirty connectors/dry lube in pushrod ball latches or on the ball itself
-failed gap seal safety tape (most common on the top of the elevator, sorta outta sight outta mind) that flips up when flying blanking the control
-a case where a ship was refurbished (2-33?) and cables were run backwards/crossed! Positive control check should make sure it's connected as well as going the anticipated way.

Positive control check helps a lot.
Crude "test" is to move controls quickly while watching them. If it is not connected, inertia may yield a clunk as the pushrod hits the ball. May.
Check safety tapes, replace as needed.
At least in the spring, clean control connect balls with a rag and WD-40 (decent safe solvent), lube the ball and locking mechanism.
After connecting a rod, try to lift it off near the ball. A slow/dirty lock may allow the rod to come off. Just had this a few weeks ago rigging a -21..

Everything you do on the ground, is one more way to avoid an issue in the air.

PS, the closest I have been (that I am aware of) to a control issue was a late day speed pass at home airport. In the pull-up, hit a gust that unlocked the dive brakes (-24) at a bit over 100MPH. Good for me, they didn't bend open, got them closed, cut pattern short, landed fine. Yes, we checked everything out throughly when derigging.
  #10  
Old June 24th 18, 05:56 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
John Leibacher
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Default When gliders fail in flight, but pilots manage to land

On Sunday, June 24, 2018 at 7:50:34 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Thx, KS. From memory, years ago you wrote a piece in Soaring about flying with inoperable controls. If so, could you point us to it? I tried to find it last night using the SSA archives but could not.

JB


Maybe

Karl H. Striedieck: Has Thought on (Elevator Hookup) Problem, Nov, 1993, page 3 (Letter) [Preflight]

or
Karl H. Striedieck: Attitude Problems (from No Elevator Control), Jul, 1994, pages 43-44 [Safety; Patterns and Landings; Instruction; Equipment\Hotellier Fittings]

Try entering KS's name in the search box at the bottom of

http://soaringweb.org/Soaring_Index/

2E
 




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