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#1
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PPL and flight simulators
Benjamin Gawert wrote:
Are simulator hours (I mean "real" simulators, not just a Peecee running Ms Flight Simulator) countable as flying hours if the PIC has the PPL and the ratings/endorsements necessary to fly the type of aircraft the simulator represents? What requirements are necessary for the simulator to be recognised as valid? Can a simulator be used in a type rating? Use of approved simulator devices is allowed for training purposes. When you're a PP acting as PIC and would like to fly the approved sim and log the hours, my interpretation of FAR 61.57 is that you can do it and use it later towards a rating or to maintain VFR and IFR currency. - Slav Inger - PP ASEL IA @ YIP |
#2
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In article ,
Bob Esser wrote: I think you can even get a type rating on some simulators. It happens all the time. I got my Learjet type rating in a simulator. Different simulators can be used for different amounts of a type rating checkride depending on their level of certification. Some can be used for 100% of the checkride. Others can only be used for 80%. -- Larry Fransson Aviation software for Mac OS X! http://www.subcritical.com |
#3
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Larry Fransson wrote:
I think you can even get a type rating on some simulators. It happens all the time. I got my Learjet type rating in a simulator. That sound interesting. What requirements does the sim have to be able to to type ratings on it? Different simulators can be used for different amounts of a type rating checkride depending on their level of certification. Some can be used for 100% of the checkride. Others can only be used for 80%. Do You know what prerequisites are necessary for a sim being useable for 80%/100% of the checkride? Benjamin |
#4
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Larry knows more about this than I do, but the simulators have different
levels of fidelity. My understanding is these are labeled A-D, which D being the best. I think to do 100% of the rating it has to be at least level C, if not D. Check the FAR/AIMs for the details. I did some time in a MD-88 level D sim and you can feel the expansion strips as you taxi. Very impressive. jerry "Benjamin Gawert" wrote in message ... Larry Fransson wrote: Do You know what prerequisites are necessary for a sim being useable for 80%/100% of the checkride? Benjamin |
#5
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In article ,
"JerryK" wrote: My understanding is these are labeled A-D, which D being the best. I think to do 100% of the rating it has to be at least level C, if not D. Check the FAR/AIMs for the details. I can never find the reference when I need it. I don't remember where it is. I'm not sure if you need a Level C simulator for a 100% checkride or if Level B will do. In any case, you have to meet certain experience requirements to receive an unrestricted type rating from a 100% simulator check. They include things like previous type ratings or applicable experience in actual aircraft. Lacking those prerequisites, you may receive a type rating that requires something on the order of 15 to 25 hours of "supervised PIC experience" which means essentially that you are carrying out the duties of PIC under the supervision of a qualified PIC. Once you have that logged, you take your log book down to the FSDO, they look at it, and then give you a new temporary certificate with an unrestricted type rating. At FlightSafety in Tucson where I go for annual recurrent training, they have two Lear 35 simulators - one a Level B and one a Level C. The Level B simulator used to be Level A. They got it certified to Level B so that they could use it more. Used to be we couldn't take our Part 135 checkrides in anything but the Level C sim because the level A sim somehow didn't meet the requirements. Last time I was there, they said something about having upgraded the A to a B so that they could use it for checkrides. I did some time in a MD-88 level D sim and you can feel the expansion strips as you taxi. Very impressive. Level D is supposed to be a much better simulation, and it does something resembling daylight simulation. It's pretty dark daylight inside, but certainly better than what they call daylight in a Level C sim, which is much closer to late dusk than anything else. I got to fly a 767 simulator a few weeks ago. I'll vouch for its fidelity to the real thing. When my wife (who doesn't fly except with me) couldn't remember how to stop after landing, we ended up swerving down the runway, dragging the left wing, and eventually skidding to a stop sideways in the grass. I have never dragged a wing in a 767 before, but I imagine the sound we heard was pretty close to what it would sound like if it really did happen. On the bad landings (which was most of them - my last one was the only really smooth one, and that's why it was the last one!), things (and unrestrained people) went flying around the flight deck. It seemed fairly real to me! -- Larry Fransson Aviation software for Mac OS X! http://www.subcritical.com |
#6
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"Benjamin Gawert" wrote in message ... That sound interesting. What requirements does the sim have to be able to to type ratings on it? Level D simulator which basically becomes so real even the weather depiction landing in low IFR conditions is realistic --- this is a multi-million $ sim. Do You know what prerequisites are necessary for a sim being useable for 80%/100% of the checkride? This is listed in a table in the PTS standards. -- Richard Kaplan, CFII www.flyimc.com |
#7
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In article 85ec12b8685df60ff2661cb9f832b12b@TeraNews,
"Richard Kaplan" wrote: That sound interesting. What requirements does the sim have to be able to to type ratings on it? Level D simulator which basically becomes so real even the weather depiction landing in low IFR conditions is realistic --- this is a multi-million $ sim. You don't have to go quite that far. Level C will do fine. Their visuals are plenty good. They just don't do daylight visuals or have quite the level of fidelity that Level D simulators have. A night ILS to minimums in a Level C simulator looks very much like what I've seen when doing it for real. The landing lights illuminating the pavement, and the haze for that matter, look very real. When I talk about fidelity, I'm talking essentially about realism. A Level C simulator taxiing pretty much glides along as smooth as silk. The Level D simulator simulates the bumps in the taxiway. In a Level D simulator, the sounds you hear are very close to the real thing (e.g. my previous example of dragging a wing on landing). In the Level C simulator I fly every year, it's very difficult to distinguish between the sounds caused by a bird strike, an engine failing catastrophically, and many other things because they're all created by the instructor smacking the wall of the simulator with his hand. -- Larry Fransson Aviation software for Mac OS X! http://www.subcritical.com |
#8
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"Larry Fransson" wrote in message ... You don't have to go quite that far. Level C will do fine. Their visuals are plenty good. They just don't do daylight visuals or have That is almost correct... in order to use a Level C sim for a type rating instead of a Level D sim the pilot needs to meet certain prerequisite experience requirements -- See Appendix 1 Task vs. Simulation Device Credit at the end of the ATP/Type Rating Practical Test Standards in this link: http://av-info.faa.gov/data/practica...-s-8081-5d.pdf For those who are interested, the following link gives an extremely detailed listing of the technical requirements for Level A through D simulators... among other items a Level D can do which a Level C cannot do are accurate representations of mach effect at altitude, weather radar correlated with visuals, airframe icing scenarios, control bufetting in certain situations, and flight near thunderstorms: http://www2.faa.gov/nsp/nsp/AC-120-40B.pdf -- Richard Kaplan, CFII www.flyimc.com |
#9
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define "real" simulators... there are varying degrees "classes" beyond the
desktop PC, most are usable for IFR training, but as mentioned in a previous post, you need a CFII with you to log the training, just practice by your self, although good experience is not creditable towards log book hours or currency requirements. BT "Benjamin Gawert" wrote in message ... Are simulator hours (I mean "real" simulators, not just a Peecee running Ms Flight Simulator) countable as flying hours if the PIC has the PPL and the ratings/endorsements necessary to fly the type of aircraft the simulator represents? What requirements are necessary for the simulator to be recognised as valid? Can a simulator be used in a type rating? Benjamin |
#10
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BTIZ wrote:
define "real" simulators... A fully complete cockpit made of the cockpit parts of the real aircraft, with front visual system, force feedback, and some simulation of the g-forces pressing the pilot into the seat. A simulator that shows the exactly same behavior the real aircraft shows... there are varying degrees "classes" beyond the desktop PC, most are usable for IFR training, but as mentioned in a previous post, you need a CFII with you to log the training, just practice by your self, although good experience is not creditable towards log book hours or currency requirements. Right. I just want to know if I would log the sim hours if it would make any sense when having a PPL. Even if they at least count when making the CPL somewhen... Benjamin |
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