wristbands for air sickness, do they work ?

On Nov 9, 7:26*am, "Vaughn Simon"
wrote:
"Jack" None wrote in message

u...

I am learning to fly gliders and I struggle with motion sickness.

I have tried:
- Ginder tablets, it helped but I was still a bit nauseaus.
- Motion sickness tablets, they affect my awareness and concentration.
- Chewing various things, best was beef jerky (not a joke) it helps but still
not good enough.

* *Motion sickness is partly physical but mostly mental. *I think that I am a
very typical pilot in that as long as I am the one on the controls, I am
unlikely to suffer. *But shortly after someone else takes the controls and does
a few "whoop-de-doos" all bets are off! *Encourage your instructor to keep
demonstrations brief, and to "talk you through" maneuvers whenever possible
rather than demonstrating, even if that slows your progress a bit.

* *The best medicine for motion sickness is continued exposure to the conditions
that cause it. *Most likely, you will soon get used to the sensations of flight
and your problems will gradually fade away. *Until then, do whatever seems to
help.

Vaughn

Vaughn,

Please back up your statement "Motion sickness is partly physical but
mostly mental" with facts, references etc. I still get sick at the
beginning of each season and on days when the conditions are
unpredictable (wave, rough thermals, etc). The difference between you
flying and someone else is the predictability factor. When you fly
you know what you are going to do. For the most part I can find there
is little mental involved in airsickness. It is an inner ear issue
for most pilots where the inner ear is getting unpredictable stimulus
that causes the symptoms.

There are old wives tails form early military training that it is
mental, but so far no data I know of that back that up. Please don't
spread rumour and misinformation unless you can provide good data to
back it up. You are not providing information that will help and
really only confuses the topic.

"Tim Taylor" wrote in message
...

There are old wives tails form early military training that it is
mental, but so far no data I know of that back that up. Please don't
spread rumour and misinformation unless you can provide good data to
back it up. You are not providing information that will help and
really only confuses the topic.

You are entitled to your opinion, and entitled to post same here. My opinion
is informed from observing myself and hundreds of my shipmates in my Navy days
and years of providing Commercial glider rides and instructing in gliders.

YMMV

Vaughn

Having often been tossed around on rubber dinghies before and after
scuba diving in rough sea, I've noticed at least one mental factor to
motion sickness: contagion.
When one sailor starts vomiting, others follow soon...

Willy VINKEN MD


On Sun, 09 Nov 2008 19:47:40 GMT, "Vaughn Simon"
wrote:


"Tim Taylor" wrote in message
...

There are old wives tails form early military training that it is
mental, but so far no data I know of that back that up. Please don't
spread rumour and misinformation unless you can provide good data to
back it up. You are not providing information that will help and
really only confuses the topic.

You are entitled to your opinion, and entitled to post same here. My opinion
is informed from observing myself and hundreds of my shipmates in my Navy days
and years of providing Commercial glider rides and instructing in gliders.

YMMV

Vaughn

At 18:51 09 November 2008, Tim Taylor wrote:

Vaughn,

Please back up your statement "Motion sickness is partly physical but
mostly mental" with facts, references etc. I still get sick at the
beginning of each season and on days when the conditions are
unpredictable (wave, rough thermals, etc). The difference between you
flying and someone else is the predictability factor. When you fly
you know what you are going to do. For the most part I can find there
is little mental involved in airsickness. It is an inner ear issue
for most pilots where the inner ear is getting unpredictable stimulus
that causes the symptoms.

There are old wives tails form early military training that it is
mental, but so far no data I know of that back that up. Please don't
spread rumour and misinformation unless you can provide good data to
back it up. You are not providing information that will help and
really only confuses the topic.



I second Tim's question. I am a medical doctor and in my 40th season as
a glider pilot. I have suffered from motion sickness from very early
childhood in cars, boats and (later) gliders. There are clearly may
people like myself who have a physical predisposition to motion sickness
and it really annoys me to have dogmatic views continually asserted to the
effect that it is mainly a psychological problem. The proponents of this
view almost invariably cite the fact that people can reduce or eliminate
motion sickness by using physical conditioning regimes as support for the
psychological aetiology hypothesis. The flaw in this argument is so
startlingly obvious that it hardly needs stating but here goes: how does
the efficacy of a physical cure prove a psychological cause?

No doubt people susceptible to motion sickness can exacerbate it by
subconsciously learning to expect it and this aspect can be helped using
psychological techniques. Moreover a treatment that successfully
physically de-conditions one from motion sickness will indeed reduce the
secondary expectation effect. Overall I see no evidence to counter my
view that motion sickness is primarily a physical problem with a variable
degree of secondary psychological overlay.

As to treatments: there are no drugs that are safe to use during solo
glider flying. I confess now to having used them all long ago.

I personally have found the electronic median nerve stimulator wrist
band/watch thingy to be surprisingly effective. I am by nature and
training totally cynical about alternative medicine therapies and I don't
know how this thing works for me. I am worried that if I think about it
too hard I might undermine its benefit for me. I don't think it is
purely a placebo because passive wrist pressure bands placed on the same
point are very much less effective.

John Galloway

On Nov 9, 12:47*pm, "Vaughn Simon"
wrote:
"Tim Taylor" wrote in message

...

There are old wives tails form early military training that it is
mental, but so far no data I know of that back that up. *Please don't
spread rumour and misinformation unless you can provide good data to
back it up. *You are not providing information that will help and
really only confuses the topic.

* *You are entitled to your opinion, and entitled to post same here. *My opinion
is informed from observing myself and hundreds of my shipmates in my Navy days
and years of providing Commercial glider rides and instructing in gliders..

* * YMMV

Vaughn

*You are entitled to your opinion, and entitled to post same here. *My
opinion
is informed from observing myself and hundreds of my shipmates in my Navy days
and years of providing Commercial glider rides and instructing in gliders..

* * YMMV

Vaughn

Vaughn,

I try not to deal in opinion in scientific matters. As I said,
please provide your references or data to back up your opinion that
air sickness is mostly mental. If not you are providing an opinion
that will actually mislead people and prevent them from finding
solutions that work. There is a great deal of literature that shows
that there are solutions and that the causes are not mental but
related to stimulus input.

Here are a few:


Motion sickness adaptation: a neural mismatch model.
J T Reason
J R Soc Med. 1978 November; 71(11): 819–829.
PMCID: PMC1436193

Motion sickness: a synthesis and evaluation of the sensory conflict
theory.
Oman CM.
Can J Physiol Pharmacol. 1990 Feb;68(2):294-303.

Physiological basis and pharmacology of motion sickness: an update
B. J. Yates, A. D. Miller and J. B. Lucot
Brain Research Bulletin
Volume 47, Issue 5, 15 November 1998, Pages 395-406

Tim

my expereience as a flight surgeon in a high performance sqadron has
shown me that anyone can get airsick. (my call sign, "Chunks"). if the
fighter pilots are out of the cockpit for several weeks- airsickness
is a distinct possibility. also when they fly as check pilot, (read
passenger), again, rarely they would admit to airsickness.
The worse scenario for the fighter guys? put them in a simulator where
the instruments move but not the cockpit- instant airsick for them,
(whited out closed canopy).

My considerable airsick experience learnings
1- puke and you will feel better and be ok to press on
2- oatmeal is about the least bothersome coming up
3- even I could get over the airsickness if I flew often enough

mj

On Nov 9, 1:31*pm, Mark Jardini wrote:
my expereience as a flight surgeon in a high performance sqadron has
shown me that anyone can get airsick. (my call sign, "Chunks"). if the
fighter pilots are out of the cockpit for several weeks- airsickness
is a distinct possibility. also when they fly as check pilot, (read
passenger), again, rarely they would admit to airsickness.
The worse scenario for the fighter guys? put them in a simulator where
the instruments move but not the cockpit- instant airsick for them,
(whited out closed canopy).

My considerable airsick experience learnings
1- puke and you will feel better and be ok to press on
2- oatmeal is about the least bothersome coming up
3- even I could get over the airsickness if I flew often enough

mj

A glider pilot I used to know in the UK would throw up early during a
flight, especially if out in the sun for a while. Less prone to do
this if under cloud shadows. He'd be fine after hurling. Maybe a few
hard rounds of dizzy bat as a conditioning exercise are in order

FW

Something about the active ingredient in Kwells tablets, which is hyoscine
hydrobromide. See:

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/medicines/100001438.html

It seems it can cause drowsiness and vision disturbances, so probably not
suitable for solo flying. However it could be used during training until
the student gets used to the sensations of flying and stops being sick.

Derek Copeland

At 13:30 09 November 2008, Derek Copeland wrote:
Jack,

The anti-sickness pills are called 'Kwells', at least in the UK. I
used
to take them for navigating in a rally cars, which is almost guaranteed
to
make you throw up, especially on night rallies. The only side effect I
noticed was a slight dryness of the mouth, but perhaps you should take
medical advice on their suitability for flying.

I to had a slight problem with air-sickness in my early gliding career.
This didn't show up too much during my training, but became a problem
when I started to make longer soaring flights after going solo. Several
times I had to dive back to the airfield with full airbrakes out so that
at least I could be sick on the ground. However this passed with growing
familiarity with being in the air. I still sometimes feel a bit queasy
on
rough blue thermal days flying with less than smooth student pilots (I
have since qualified as an instructor).

The best tips I can give are not to get too tense and to watch the
horizon
as much as possible; this encourages a good lookout anyway.

The wrist band might have a psychological or placebo effect. If you pay
a
lot of money for it and believe it will work, then it probably will!

Derek Copeland

At 09:26 09 November 2008, Willy VINKEN wrote:
No Jack, they don't.
Or at least, there is no scientific evidence that proves they might.
Nevertheless, everything that derives attention can prevent motion
sickness. Even having spent a lot of money for a gadget. The worst
situation is when you keep thinking motion sickness will happen.
Keep trying, and things will improve.
Drugs like cinnarazine or domperidone might help in between.
NASA even experimented with scopolamine. Those are not trademarks,
but international nonproprietary chemical names. Trademarks are
different in different countries.
The more efficient they are, the more side effects they have...
But still, they might be a suitable solution for transition. Your
instructor is always behind you, so some lack of concentration isn't
dramatic, and you still keep acquiring reflexes. After all, this is
what basic learning to fly is all about.
Open the window a bit, get some fresh air blowing in your face, and
concentrate on flying. And believe me, half an hour in the air,
working hard, is more than enough for a beginner to be exhausted.
Longer flights simply add 'minutes in the cockpit', but don't improve
your skills.

Willy VINKEN
Medical doctor, diving instructor and glider pilot.
And having seen a lot of motion sickness...


Acupuncture works, I am the most sceptical person when it comes to
"alternative remedies" but it really does work and I read somewhere that
the wrist pressure works because it is an acupunture point. You would need
to talk to an acupunture practitioner to get confirmation.
As an example I have a very strong gag reflex and my dentist had to take
some impressions, garunteed to make me gag. She made me press quite hard
on a point centrally under my bottom lip for 90 seconds. I was convinced I
would gag. The impressions were taken with absolutely no problem. It does
work, why I have no idea and the fact that it cannot be scientifically
explained does not alter that fact.

Don Johnstone wrote:

Acupuncture works, I am the most sceptical person when it comes to
"alternative remedies" but it really does work and I read somewhere that
the wrist pressure works because it is an acupunture point. You would need
to talk to an acupunture practitioner to get confirmation.
As an example I have a very strong gag reflex and my dentist had to take
some impressions, garunteed to make me gag. She made me press quite hard
on a point centrally under my bottom lip for 90 seconds. I was convinced I
would gag. The impressions were taken with absolutely no problem. It does
work, why I have no idea and the fact that it cannot be scientifically
explained does not alter that fact.

Ever hear of the placebo effect? That *is* a scientific explanation.
But hey, if it works for you that's all that matters. :-)

Regards,

-Doug