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  #11  
Old February 21st 18, 02:37 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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On Wednesday, February 21, 2018 at 8:11:44 AM UTC-5, Dave Nadler wrote:
On Tuesday, February 20, 2018 at 7:55:47 PM UTC-5, wrote:
...past time we teach student pilots how to fly safe and low.


Agreed. In USA we manage to kill a pilot every few years with untrained
imitation (Uvalde, Wurtsboro, etc).

A while back I talked to Scott Manley about doing video showing the
ways people usually die (slow speed and or button-hook).
Scott started but sorry I don't know if this was ever completed?


The Wurtsboro accident wasn't a show off speed pass based on what observers I spoke with said. It is quite likely that it was a rushed return and pattern due to a physical problem.
UH
  #12  
Old February 21st 18, 07:34 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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On Wednesday, February 21, 2018 at 8:11:44 AM UTC-5, Dave Nadler wrote:
On Tuesday, February 20, 2018 at 7:55:47 PM UTC-5, wrote:
...past time we teach student pilots how to fly safe and low.


Agreed. In USA we manage to kill a pilot every few years with untrained
imitation (Uvalde, Wurtsboro, etc).

A while back I talked to Scott Manley about doing video showing the
ways people usually die (slow speed and or button-hook).
Scott started but sorry I don't know if this was ever completed?


One of the advantages of simulation-based flight training is the ability to experience potentially dangerous situations without the associated risk.

Individuals can learn quite a bit through self-directed trial/error. It would have been more prudent, and increased the probability of a happy ending, had the young person in question experienced the proposed maneuver lots of times in simulation before attempting it in a real aircraft.

Certainly, in cooperation with a mentor, simulation-based training of this type would be that much more effective and efficient, as it is in general.

As part of my presentation at the Reno convention next week, I am doing a segment called "Having Fun with Condor" in which I demonstrate a variety of flight situations I have experimented with in simulation, ranging from plausible to insane. In all these situations, I learned a lot about glider performance, my abilities, and how quickly some situations can turn deadly.

Scott Manley - 3167160CFI
  #13  
Old February 21st 18, 08:15 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dave Nadler
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On Wednesday, February 21, 2018 at 1:34:49 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wednesday, February 21, 2018 at 8:11:44 AM UTC-5, Dave Nadler wrote:
On Tuesday, February 20, 2018 at 7:55:47 PM UTC-5, wrote:
...past time we teach student pilots how to fly safe and low.


Agreed. In USA we manage to kill a pilot every few years with untrained
imitation (Uvalde, Wurtsboro, etc).

A while back I talked to Scott Manley about doing video showing the
ways people usually die (slow speed and or button-hook).
Scott started but sorry I don't know if this was ever completed?


One of the advantages of simulation-based flight training is the ability to experience potentially dangerous situations without the associated risk.

Individuals can learn quite a bit through self-directed trial/error. It would have been more prudent, and increased the probability of a happy ending, had the young person in question experienced the proposed maneuver lots of times in simulation before attempting it in a real aircraft.

Certainly, in cooperation with a mentor, simulation-based training of this type would be that much more effective and efficient, as it is in general..

As part of my presentation at the Reno convention next week, I am doing a segment called "Having Fun with Condor" in which I demonstrate a variety of flight situations I have experimented with in simulation, ranging from plausible to insane. In all these situations, I learned a lot about glider performance, my abilities, and how quickly some situations can turn deadly.

Scott Manley - 3167160CFI


Scott - Did you finish the video(s) on how not to do high speed passes for SSF?
Thanks!
Best Regards, Dave
  #14  
Old February 22nd 18, 05:06 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Scott - Did you finish the video(s) on how not to do high speed passes for SSF?
Thanks!
Best Regards, Dave


Most of the work I did for the SSF is available on their website

http://www.soaringsafety.org/

Under the links "FLIGHT TRAINING VIDEOS" and "FLIGHT SAFETY VIDEOS".

I worked with Rich Carlson and Bob Wander to produce 9 "FLIGHT SAFETY" videos each showing a situation that has been known to end badly. I also produced 1 "FLIGHT TRAINING" video demonstrating/describing "How to approach/land in a crosswind."

I remember you (Dave) contacting me, asking if Condor could be used to produce a video of a high-speed low pass gone wrong. I assured you it could, I remember doing the flying and recording a Condor Replay of a failed high-speed low pass (glider stalls and spins as it attempts the reversing turn after pulling up and losing airspeed), and I sort of remember getting back to you (Dave) with "what do you think about this?", but I don't remember the effort going any further than that. I remember the request as coming from you (Dave), not from the SSF, but you (Dave) had probably seen the other SSF videos and were suggesting that a LOW PASS GONE BAD video be adding to he mix.

I just searched my Condor folders and can't find any remnant of the Replay I claim above to have produced.

Producing these videos turns out to be quite a bit of work.
1) A perfect example of what is being demonstrated needs to be flown. This often takes dozens/scores of attempts.
2) The perfect example is stored as a Condor Replay
3) The Replay, or segments of it, need to be captured using video capture software, e.g. FRAPS to produce an actual video format, e.g. .wmv. A Condor Replay is not actually a video, it is a parameter file that Condor uses to generate video output internally. A Replay (.rpy) can only be played back using Condor)
4) The video captured by FRAPS then needs to be edited into the final product using software like Windows Movie Maker.

Anyone with a lot of time, the required software, and the requisite skills can produce a similar video. )

Scott Manley - 3167160CFI


  #15  
Old February 22nd 18, 11:06 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tom[_21_]
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Can I just ask a basic question here - what is the purpose of the "low pass" and how does it further or add to the flight?

Thanks Tom

  #16  
Old February 23rd 18, 12:05 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Roy B.
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what is the purpose of the "low pass" and how does it further or add to the flight?

The honest answers are "there isn't a purpose (anymore)" and it adds "nothing" further to the flight. But it does on occasion make some really fascinating video footage: See: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xb8dcs
ROY
  #17  
Old February 23rd 18, 12:45 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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On Thursday, February 22, 2018 at 3:06:50 PM UTC-7, Tom wrote:
Can I just ask a basic question here - what is the purpose of the "low pass" and how does it further or add to the flight?

Thanks Tom


You can also ask "What is the purpose of flying XCountry?" or "What is the purpose of flying an airplane with no engine?"

My answer to your question and my two questions is "It's fun." We could stop having fun because its unsafe or teach everyone how to have fun more safely. As previous posters have mentioned, stopping people doing a low pass may not be the best way. It's like trying to teach kids abstinence. Useless.
  #18  
Old February 23rd 18, 02:27 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Waveguru
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It's very hard to see the various forms of wildlife lurking near the edges of the runway from pattern altitude. A low pass gives you a better idea what may be lurking. Also good practice for an outlanding where you can't tell the surface condition of the chosen field. It's also a great way to get the message across that you are about to land to lollygaggers on the runway who don't have their radios turned on. Other benefits are testing the possible wind gradient.

Boggs
  #19  
Old February 23rd 18, 02:57 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jonathan St. Cloud
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In Minden it is a great way to see where the down part of the wave has set up.


On Thursday, February 22, 2018 at 2:06:50 PM UTC-8, Tom wrote:
Can I just ask a basic question here - what is the purpose of the "low pass" and how does it further or add to the flight?

Thanks Tom


  #20  
Old February 23rd 18, 05:36 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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It is joyful, inspirational and beautiful when done well. And it feels really good. And somewhat dangerous. A Personal call.
 




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