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Kawa rough landing?



 
 
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  #21  
Old September 10th 19, 02:04 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
2G
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Posts: 614
Default Kawa rough landing?

On Monday, September 9, 2019 at 9:03:48 AM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
2G wrote on 9/8/2019 10:17 PM:
On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 6:52:44 PM UTC-7, Richard DalCanto wrote:
On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 11:20:53 AM UTC-6, krasw wrote:


Those pictures show a nice looking field. I'm sure he's landed in fields like that many times. Bumps and rocks are always a risk when landing in a field.


A bump or rock can break your spine - there is no such thing as a "nice looking field," just some that are less desirable than others.


I'll point out the risk from a bump or rock varies with the glider you use. My
(26E) glider and your glider (31Mi) have tall, massive gears designed to provide
significant protection from bumps, rocks, and even badly botched landings on
pavement. And, not just from the height of the gear, but it's shock absorption and
progressive collapse during the collision with the bump or rock. So, I have no
fear of bumps or rocks in an off-airport landing.

I do fear ditches and boulders (basically, anything bigger than the tire), but
even then, the gear will reduce the damage I would suffer compared to my earlier
gliders that were designed before crash protection became a much higher priority.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)


Clearly some gliders are much better designed and built than others, but fields that you haven't walked can be a literal mine field of obstructions, particularly if the grass is higher and hides these hazards.

Tom

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  #22  
Old September 10th 19, 09:05 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
krasw
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Posts: 500
Default Kawa rough landing?

On Monday, 9 September 2019 04:52:44 UTC+3, Richard DalCanto wrote:
On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 11:20:53 AM UTC-6, krasw wrote:
http://www.sebastiankawa.pl/13060/o-...bGJ8ugxxXHZS58

Google translate:
"During the last training flight they locked Sebastian in a narrow 30-kilometer valley without landing spots. The possibility of escape was to be provided by an efficient electric drive system. "

There you go. Glad he did not hurt himself more seriously.


Those pictures show a nice looking field. I'm sure he's landed in fields like that many times. Bumps and rocks are always a risk when landing in a field.


To my eyes it looks like a mountain slope, described unlandable (obviously, with hindsight).

Reading a lot of fb comments it's surprising how many talk about electric engine unreliability as cause. Have we not learned anything during last 30-40 years of playing with sustainers and selflauncher? Engine start down low is a PLEASANT SURPRISE, you plan for safe outlanding, always. There has been FES selflauncher accident because powerplant failure and one really close call. They aren't any better.
  #23  
Old September 10th 19, 12:32 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Peter F[_2_]
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Default Kawa rough landing?

At 08:05 10 September 2019, krasw wrote:
There has been FES selflauncher accident because powerplant failure and

one
really close call. They aren't any better.


Can you provide links to these incidents?

I would expect them to ba at least 1 order of magnitude better than the
traditional turbo.

  #24  
Old September 10th 19, 03:29 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tango Whisky
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Default Kawa rough landing?

Why?
  #25  
Old September 10th 19, 03:41 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
krasw
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Posts: 500
Default Kawa rough landing?

On Tuesday, 10 September 2019 14:45:04 UTC+3, Peter F wrote:
At 08:05 10 September 2019, krasw wrote:
There has been FES selflauncher accident because powerplant failure and

one
really close call. They aren't any better.


Can you provide links to these incidents?

I would expect them to ba at least 1 order of magnitude better than the
traditional turbo.


https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/195172

Not sure if close call has been documented as incident.
  #26  
Old September 10th 19, 04:02 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 107
Default Kawa rough landing?

On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 10:20:53 AM UTC-7, krasw wrote:
http://www.sebastiankawa.pl/13060/o-...bGJ8ugxxXHZS58

Google translate:
"During the last training flight they locked Sebastian in a narrow 30-kilometer valley without landing spots. The possibility of escape was to be provided by an efficient electric drive system. "

There you go. Glad he did not hurt himself more seriously.


In the pics there is a lake. I know it is not everyone's first choice, but in desperate situations like this, with an electric and batteries, should the lake be avoided? Or would it have been a better choice in hindsight?
  #27  
Old September 10th 19, 04:09 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tango Eight
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Posts: 755
Default Kawa rough landing?

On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 7:45:04 AM UTC-4, Peter F wrote:
At 08:05 10 September 2019, krasw wrote:
There has been FES selflauncher accident because powerplant failure and

one
really close call. They aren't any better.


Can you provide links to these incidents?

I would expect them to ba at least 1 order of magnitude better than the
traditional turbo.


https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/Re...relim&IType=LA
  #28  
Old September 10th 19, 04:15 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tango Eight
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Posts: 755
Default Kawa rough landing?

On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 11:09:12 AM UTC-4, Tango Eight wrote:
On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 7:45:04 AM UTC-4, Peter F wrote:
At 08:05 10 September 2019, krasw wrote:
There has been FES selflauncher accident because powerplant failure and

one
really close call. They aren't any better.


Can you provide links to these incidents?

I would expect them to ba at least 1 order of magnitude better than the
traditional turbo.


https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/Re...relim&IType=LA


oh, and of course...
http://sustainableskies.org/two-batt...ng-sailplanes/

T8
  #29  
Old September 10th 19, 04:58 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jonathan St. Cloud
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Posts: 1,144
Default Kawa rough landing?

On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 8:15:24 AM UTC-7, Tango Eight wrote:
On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 11:09:12 AM UTC-4, Tango Eight wrote:
On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 7:45:04 AM UTC-4, Peter F wrote:
At 08:05 10 September 2019, krasw wrote:
There has been FES selflauncher accident because powerplant failure and
one
really close call. They aren't any better.


Can you provide links to these incidents?

I would expect them to ba at least 1 order of magnitude better than the
traditional turbo.


https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/Re...relim&IType=LA


oh, and of course...
http://sustainableskies.org/two-batt...ng-sailplanes/

T8


We are are temporary in the larger sense. Choose your risks v rewards wisely.
  #30  
Old September 10th 19, 06:24 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 345
Default Kawa rough landing?

On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 11:09:12 AM UTC-4, Tango Eight wrote:
On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 7:45:04 AM UTC-4, Peter F wrote:
At 08:05 10 September 2019, krasw wrote:
There has been FES selflauncher accident because powerplant failure and

one
really close call. They aren't any better.


Can you provide links to these incidents?

I would expect them to ba at least 1 order of magnitude better than the
traditional turbo.


https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/Re...relim&IType=LA


"His last calculation of remaining battery energy was about 20 minutes from DXR,
when he noted about 20% battery life remaining. As he prepared to enter the DXR traffic pattern for landing on runway 26, he noted that the glider's altitude was low. He turned on the electric motor; however, it produced only minimal power and the glider continued to lose altitude until it impacted trees and a house 2.7 miles northeast of DXR."

That one was neither a close call (alas), nor a powerplant failure. Rather an empty battery, due to prior self-launch and cruise, without securing alternatives. Analogous to running out of gasoline. It is not evidence against the claim that FES is inherently more reliable than traditional turbo. Besides the electric motor starting reliably (as long as one keeps some "fuel in the tank"), there is also no added drag like from the boom of a retractable engine (of any type).
 




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