Cirrus vs. 182

Mike,

If you
are prone to spinning airplanes during the turn from base to final in the
pattern, please don't buy a Cirrus.


Pleas don't buy ANY airplane, in that case. None are any more recoverable
than the other.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

C,

However, I think it is no more
biased than Cirrus' advertising.


Ah, but it is not branded as advertising, but rather claims to be some
objective comparison. Now that I've read it, I have to say that this
article is the most blatant piece of propaganda I have read in a long
time. Total, utter junk.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Did some digging...

The administrative contact for airplanenoise.com is Pat Redmond and
the website mentions they are located at KOZW. A quick google shows
that Pat is the sales guy at Suburban Aviation at KDUH which is the
"exclusive Cessna sales representative for Michigan" and has just
expanded into KOZW.

http://www.suburbanaviation.com/sba/marketing.htm
http://www.suburbanaviation.com/sba/press_release.PDF

-lance smith


"Maule Driver" wrote in message r.com...
Well, I wish it was a buying decision I expect to face...

CJC - I've always taken your posts seriously in the past. Will be difficult
after that biased pile of dung.

I hope you do work for Cessna - it's the only reasonable excuse.

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
This article pretty much describes the differences between the two
airplanes
and points up the issues that I have with the Cirrus.

http://www.airplanenoise.com/article....%20Cirrus.pdf

--
Christopher J. Campbell
World Famous Flight Instructor
Port Orchard, WA


If you go around beating the Bush, don't complain if you rile the animals.

"lance smith" wrote in message
m...
Did some digging...

The administrative contact for airplanenoise.com is Pat Redmond and
the website mentions they are located at KOZW. A quick google shows
that Pat is the sales guy at Suburban Aviation at KDUH which is the
"exclusive Cessna sales representative for Michigan" and has just
expanded into KOZW.

Ah, well I guess everything it says is untrue then. By extension, we can say
that everything that Cirrus supporters say is untrue, because they are also
biased. In fact, everything that Kerry says about Bush is untrue, everything
that Bush says about Kerry is untrue, and everything that everybody says
about Martin Hotze is untrue. :-)

Yep, that is the main gripe indeed. And it makes me question the character
of the Cirrus people that they do this. I suppose they must believe the
trade offs made on safety v. performance do not compromise safety. Also,
the must believe in the chute (though I know for a fact that at least one of
them is selling his soul on both issues).

In the end, I believe they could have made the SRV with different feathers
so that it was more spin worthy and less stall resistant. Then they would
have the perfect trainer for the more advanced planes. Unfortunately, the
SRV is really a low ball to get folks in the 172/ archer market to call
them. Apparently, they chickened out on the funds to do it right.


"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

"Michael" wrote in message
om...
"Mike Murdock" wrote
Mr. Campbell, based on your previous posts, you seem to have an axe to
grind
about Cirrus. Why? Do you think Cirrus Design is trying to hoodwink
pilots?

I'm not Mr. Campbell (fortunately) and I rarely agree with him on
anything.

I really hate having to agree with you on something. It is almost enough
to
make me change my mind. But, yes, I think the big problem is the type of
pilot that the SR22 is being marketed to.

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

"lance smith" wrote in message
m...
Did some digging...

The administrative contact for airplanenoise.com is Pat Redmond and
the website mentions they are located at KOZW. A quick google shows
that Pat is the sales guy at Suburban Aviation at KDUH which is the
"exclusive Cessna sales representative for Michigan" and has just
expanded into KOZW.

Ah, well I guess everything it says is untrue then.

Even their performance/specification/statistical data is, well, it's 96.7%
untrue.

By extension, we can say
that everything that Cirrus supporters say is untrue, because they are
also
biased. In fact, everything that Kerry says about Bush is untrue,
everything
that Bush says about Kerry is untrue, and everything that everybody says
about Martin Hotze is untrue. :-)

That's true.

Nathan Young wrote
WX-500 displayed on the Avidyne is an option on all Cirrus models:

And standard on none, with any package.

SRV, SR20 & 22. I flew a Skywatch equipped SR22 a few months ago,
what a treat. Really helps with traffic awareness. I'm sure the
WX-500 is equally cool.

It's not a matter of cool, it's a matter of being able to fly when
there are T-storms around. Having flown with both Skywatch and
Stormscope, I have to say that Stormscope is WAY more important.

TKS is also an option. Not sure if it is K-ice though.

It is not. Further, it has a very small fluid reservoir compared to
what's available on airplanes of similar performance.

Michael

This is all marketing tactic crap. Great stuff, right up there with
politics. Marketing and politics - 2 places where subjective eloquence is
prized and valued. No one expects objectivity or even facts (see
Kerry/Bush). Hell, even Vans quotes his performance numbers in mph -
they're apparently accurate but still have to be spun.

I'd buy a Cirrus over a 182 in a second (if it they both fit my mission).
Why? Speed baby. 30% or better is the whole ball game. That's why we put
up with retracts. And sex appeal! The 182 looks like 1954, the Cirrus
looks and flies like Century 21.

Am I being oversold? I have a couple of thousand hours of private flight,
glider, IFR, Comm, Multi. I fly a high wing, a Maule for crissakes. I
can't imagine pulling the chute and I don't care whether it's there or not.
I *know* the 182 is solid as rock and that the SR stuff is new and will have
bugs. Sex and speed any day.

Flat panel displays? That game is over... we'll all going there.
Integrated avionics is as certain as evolution. Steam guages will go the
way of, well, steam ("what's steam daddy?"). Remember, I choose to fly a
tailwheel, and a high wing, and on grass.

SEL 4 place aircraft are expensive toys and business tools. They are
discretionary expenses. Why buy the latest turbocharged rendition of a '54
truck if you have a choice?

Well I would. I live on grass and if I had $300k to spend on personal
travel, a new 182 might be about right. But I still couldn't bring myself
to buy the original '54 truck with the $60k I did have. The Maule is
sexier! (man, that's tough to say... sort of like arguing over who's grandma
is sexier) In OTW, I don't have a choice, but if I did....


"C J Campbell"
I did not write the biased pile of dung. However, I think it is no more
biased than Cirrus' advertising. I believe it brings up a serious number
of
legitimate issues.

I am also not yet convinced that the G-1000 (or any other flat panel
display) is really worth the premium. It is pretty and I could get used to
it, maybe even proficient with it, but how much additional utility do I
get
out of it?

Thomas Borchert wrote:

Ah, but it is not branded as advertising, but rather claims to be some
objective comparison. Now that I've read it, I have to say that this
article is the most blatant piece of propaganda I have read in a long
time. Total, utter junk.

In my business, such nonsense is called a "whitepaper".

If you're careful about what you believe, these can be useful. Think of
them as a source of questions rather than answers.

- Andrew

Well you know there are no truths in the world : )

I agree the article does raise some valid points. It'd be nice if they
did some fact checking and were not so biased, but either way there is
data in there. I think they're actually hurting their cause, it's hard
to take (arguments from) zealots seriously.

p.s. As a renter I'm in neither camp. What I get depends on what I
need for the day.

-lance smith


"C J Campbell" wrote in message ...
"lance smith" wrote in message
m...
Did some digging...

The administrative contact for airplanenoise.com is Pat Redmond and
the website mentions they are located at KOZW. A quick google shows
that Pat is the sales guy at Suburban Aviation at KDUH which is the
"exclusive Cessna sales representative for Michigan" and has just
expanded into KOZW.

Ah, well I guess everything it says is untrue then. By extension, we can say
that everything that Cirrus supporters say is untrue, because they are also
biased. In fact, everything that Kerry says about Bush is untrue, everything
that Bush says about Kerry is untrue, and everything that everybody says
about Martin Hotze is untrue. :-)