ZZZ Name Change for Sun-N-Fun?

ChuckSlusarczyk wrote:

I'd bet a nickle the closest he gets to flying one of those racers will be a
photo op with him in the cockpit .That way he can get rid of the pic of him in
the engineless F-104 and replace it with something newer :-)

Chuck S RAH-14/1 ret

"I'll believe it when I see it "


I believe that the chance of Captain Zoom ever racing a rocket is less
than the chance of me ever flying that F-104.

But I'll issue a public apology to Jim Campbell if he ever acts as PIC
in a Rocket Race.

- Filbert

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 14:10:07 -0700, John Ousterhout
wrote:

ChuckSlusarczyk wrote:

I'd bet a nickle the closest he gets to flying one of those racers will be a
photo op with him in the cockpit .That way he can get rid of the pic of him in
the engineless F-104 and replace it with something newer :-)

I believe that the chance of Captain Zoom ever racing a rocket is less
than the chance of me ever flying that F-104.

But I'll issue a public apology to Jim Campbell if he ever acts as PIC
in a Rocket Race.

Better define "Race," Filbert...two planes chasing each other, like the fake
Reno races at Oshkosh? Or an actual competition where the winners aren't
pre-programmed?

According to Wikipedia, the race course is at 1,500 feet, following a
computer-generated course. Funny thing is, five minutes worth of clicking on
the RRL site didn't lead to a description that even gave THAT much information.
Until you find out what RRL's definition of a "race" is, I wouldn't place any
bets.

Did find this picture on the RRL site, which is a real howler:

http://www.rocketracingleague.com/ga.../runwaybig.jpg

Note how the runway is just two wingspans wide, and the grandstands are RIGHT at
the runway edge. We're finally seeing the results of Campbell's input. :-)

Each race (again, according to Wikipedia) is supposed to last 90 minutes, with
the planes carrying four minutes of fuel. World record for a rocket pit stop is
something like three hours. Even if they get that down to 15 minutes (including
the time to tow the plane to the fuel station and back to the runway), that's
STILL a lot of gliding time.

Ron Wanttaja

In article , Ron Wanttaja says...

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 14:10:07 -0700, John Ousterhout
wrote:

Better define "Race," Filbert...two planes chasing each other, like the fake
Reno races at Oshkosh? Or an actual competition where the winners aren't
pre-programmed?

According to Wikipedia, the race course is at 1,500 feet, following a
computer-generated course. Funny thing is, five minutes worth of clicking on
the RRL site didn't lead to a description that even gave THAT much information.
Until you find out what RRL's definition of a "race" is, I wouldn't place any
bets.


Hmmm perception and reality at work here? The zoom touch is alive and well
LOL!!!


Did find this picture on the RRL site, which is a real howler:

http://www.rocketracingleague.com/ga.../runwaybig.jpg

Note how the runway is just two wingspans wide, and the grandstands are RIGHT at
the runway edge. We're finally seeing the results of Campbell's input. :-)


That certainly isn't FAA's idea of a "crowd line" try having an airshow with the
crowd line so close to the action...NOT!! more perception and reality problems.


Each race (again, according to Wikipedia) is supposed to last 90 minutes, with
the planes carrying four minutes of fuel. World record for a rocket pit stop is
something like three hours. Even if they get that down to 15 minutes (including
the time to tow the plane to the fuel station and back to the runway), that's
STILL a lot of gliding time.


I can hear the race announcer now ." Ladies and gentleman the race is on and see
that imaginary race course in the sky ? See how many of you can tell who's
winning the race OOOPPPS time for a pit stop while the action switches to the
pits for refueling.
While they're purging the tanks and doing a pre cool now's the time to go for a
dinner and visit of our sales mall.There you can enjoy a sit down meal and
dancing while the kids buy overpriced rocket models and play in the game room.

After dinner and dancing return to your seats for the exciting conclusion of the
ROCKET RACING's First heat.Thrills ,chills and excitement await us as the
Racers try to start their engines and OOOPPS we had a flame out ...Time to visit
out inhouse theater and watch an exciting movie staring the hero of stage screen
and Tv as he stars in the exciting movie the "Amazing Adventures of Capt Zoom
hero of the Universe".

While the refueling continues the Burbank RC Flyers will do a demonstration of
pylon racing with REAL model pylon racers.Now that's racing folks...While we're
waiting for the Pylon Racers to show up .Take a visit to our .....

I can hardly wait....

Chuck S RAH-14/1 ret

Is it just me or does the whole rocket racing league sound like a bad
idea? I'll admit I haven't looked into it much but it just feels like an
real bad series of accidents waiting to happen.

On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 08:09:07 -0500, Gig 601Xl Builder
wrote:


Is it just me or does the whole rocket racing league sound like a bad
idea? I'll admit I haven't looked into it much but it just feels like an
real bad series of accidents waiting to happen.

Well, let's see:

1. Each race ends with an emergency (e.g., an aircraft without of fuel).
2. If the race starts the way the RRL promotional artwork shows, multiple
aircraft will run out of fuel at the same time.
3. Ground tow vehicles will need to enter the active runway to drag the planes
off...while, of course, other planes are landing deadstick. I'm sure SOP will
be for the pilots to attempt to coast off at a taxiway, but we know that will
not happen all the time.
4. As I mentioned on a previous posting, the current record for refueling a
rocket plane to take off again will need to be bettered by a factor of ten or
twelve times.
5. This rapid refueling involves liquid oxygen at about -300 degrees F. Not
only are there the considerations involving dumping cryogenic fuel into a
vehicle holding a hot rocket engine, there are the hazards involved with LOX
itself. According to some online safety data, LOX can react violently with
"...oil, grease, asphalt, kerosene, cloth, tar, and dirt that may contain oil or
grease...." All of which are rife at a typical airport. And, again, keep in
mind the crew will be working *fast*...this IS a race, after all.
6. With LOX involved, most accidents are likely to be fatal for the pilot, with
huge fireballs. Responders (it's not likely they'll be "rescue crews") will
have to don appropriate protective gear.
7. To give them any chance at all, the pilots will need to wear complete
protective suits...which will probably hamper their vision.
8. There are no pylons or ground references for the course...pilots are
apparently going to be monitoring 3-D imagery through a HUD. While in close
proximity to other aircraft. While wearing a protective suit.

On the plus side, none of this should endanger spectators, as long as the pit
areas are kept far away (and preferably downwind).

It's even more exciting contemplating how the financial model for this is going
to work. All the aircraft, all the refueling stations, all the projection TVs,
etc. are going to have to be trucked to each race location. It'll take a while
to set up and get working right. Large hangars will have to be rented. Crowd
control, parking, concessions, porta-potties, everything involved in a major
public event have to be arranged. RRL is marketed as "NASCAR in the Sky," but
NASCAR holds its events in permanent facilities with all these problems already
taken care of.

RRL was supposed to hold its first event about two years ago; we're four months
from the first "race" and you can bet neither EAA nor Reno will be handing over
any gate receipts....

Ron Wanttaja

Ron Wanttaja wrote:
Well, let's see:

OK, Ron, I'll agree with all your points except for the very first one:


1. Each race ends with an emergency (e.g., an aircraft without of fuel).

By this definition there are a powerful lot of soaring events/races
that are nothing but emergencies.

--
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Boise, ID

On Apr 22, 5:59*am, ChuckSlusarczyk
wrote:
In article , Ron Wanttaja says....



On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 14:10:07 -0700, John Ousterhout
wrote:

Better define "Race," Filbert...two planes chasing each other, like the fake
Reno races at Oshkosh? *Or an actual competition where the winners aren't
pre-programmed?

According to Wikipedia, the race course is at 1,500 feet, following a
computer-generated course. *Funny thing is, five minutes worth of clicking on
the RRL site didn't lead to a description that even gave THAT much information.
Until you find out what RRL's definition of a "race" is, I wouldn't place any
bets.

Hmmm perception and reality at work here? The zoom touch is alive and well
LOL!!!



Did find this picture on the RRL site, which is a real howler:

http://www.rocketracingleague.com/ga...s/images/runwa...

Note how the runway is just two wingspans wide, and the grandstands are RIGHT at
the runway edge. *We're finally seeing the results of Campbell's input. :-)

That certainly isn't FAA's idea of a "crowd line" try having an airshow with the
crowd line so close to the action...NOT!! more perception and reality problems.



Each race (again, according to Wikipedia) is supposed to last 90 minutes, with
the planes carrying four minutes of fuel. *World record for a rocket pit stop is
something like three hours. *Even if they get that down to 15 minutes (including
the time to tow the plane to the fuel station and back to the runway), that's
STILL a lot of gliding time.

I can hear the race announcer now ." Ladies and gentleman the race is on and see
that imaginary race course in the sky ? See how many of you can tell who's
winning the race OOOPPPS time for a pit stop while the action switches to the
pits for refueling.
While they're purging the tanks and doing a pre cool now's the time to go for a
dinner and visit of our sales mall.There you can enjoy a sit down meal and
dancing while the kids buy overpriced rocket models and play *in the game room.

After dinner and dancing return to your seats for the exciting conclusion of the
ROCKET *RACING's First heat.Thrills ,chills and excitement await us as the
Racers try to start their engines and OOOPPS we had a flame out ...Time to visit
out inhouse theater and watch an exciting movie staring the hero of stage screen
and Tv as he stars in the exciting movie the "Amazing Adventures of Capt Zoom
hero of the Universe".

While the refueling continues the Burbank RC Flyers will do a demonstration of
pylon racing with REAL model pylon racers.Now that's racing *folks...While we're
waiting for the Pylon Racers to show up .Take a visit to our .....

I can hardly wait....

Chuck S RAH-14/1 ret

That is just about my opinion of this pipe dream from the day I first
heard about it. It is running on what? 2 years? 3 years? now and no
progress that I have heard about, no planes flying that have been
reported in the news...

Bottom line? Don't hold your breath folks.

Harry K

Harry K wrote:
On Apr 22, 5:59�am, ChuckSlusarczyk
wrote:
In article , Ron Wanttaja says...



On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 14:10:07 -0700, John Ousterhout
wrote:

Better define "Race," Filbert...two planes chasing each other, like the fake
Reno races at Oshkosh? �Or an actual competition where the winners aren't
pre-programmed?

According to Wikipedia, the race course is at 1,500 feet, following a
computer-generated course. �Funny thing is, five minutes worth of clicking on
the RRL site didn't lead to a description that even gave THAT much information.
Until you find out what RRL's definition of a "race" is, I wouldn't place any
bets.

Hmmm perception and reality at work here? The zoom touch is alive and well
LOL!!!



Did find this picture on the RRL site, which is a real howler:

http://www.rocketracingleague.com/ga...s/images/runwa....

Note how the runway is just two wingspans wide, and the grandstands are RIGHT at
the runway edge. �We're finally seeing the results of Campbell's input. :-)

That certainly isn't FAA's idea of a "crowd line" try having an airshow with the
crowd line so close to the action...NOT!! more perception and reality problems.



Each race (again, according to Wikipedia) is supposed to last 90 minutes, with
the planes carrying four minutes of fuel. �World record for a rocket pit stop is
something like three hours. �Even if they get that down to 15 minutes (including
the time to tow the plane to the fuel station and back to the runway), that's
STILL a lot of gliding time.

I can hear the race announcer now ." Ladies and gentleman the race is on and see
that imaginary race course in the sky ? See how many of you can tell who's
winning the race OOOPPPS time for a pit stop while the action switches to the
pits for refueling.
While they're purging the tanks and doing a pre cool now's the time to go for a
dinner and visit of our sales mall.There you can enjoy a sit down meal and
dancing while the kids buy overpriced rocket models and play �in the game room.

After dinner and dancing return to your seats for the exciting conclusion of the
ROCKET �RACING's First heat.Thrills ,chills and excitement await us as the
Racers try to start their engines and OOOPPS we had a flame out ...Time to visit
out inhouse theater and watch an exciting movie staring the hero of stage screen
and Tv as he stars in the exciting movie the "Amazing Adventures of Capt Zoom
hero of the Universe".

While the refueling continues the Burbank RC Flyers will do a demonstration of
pylon racing with REAL model pylon racers.Now that's racing �folks...While we're
waiting for the Pylon Racers to show up .Take a visit to our .....

I can hardly wait....

Chuck S RAH-14/1 ret

That is just about my opinion of this pipe dream from the day I first
heard about it. It is running on what? 2 years? 3 years? now and no
progress that I have heard about, no planes flying that have been
reported in the news...

Bottom line? Don't hold your breath folks.

Harry K

Could we ask ZOOM to hold his breath while we wait? BFG

Frank Stutzman wrote:
Ron Wanttaja wrote:
Well, let's see:

OK, Ron, I'll agree with all your points except for the very first one:


1. Each race ends with an emergency (e.g., an aircraft without of fuel).

By this definition there are a powerful lot of soaring events/races
that are nothing but emergencies.


But these aren't gliders. Of course neither is the space shuttle. BUT.

BobR wrote:

Harry K wrote:



Bottom line? Don't hold your breath folks.

Harry K

Could we ask ZOOM to hold his breath while we wait? BFG


The problem is they seem to have bought a perfectly good kit company.

http://kitplanesmag.blogspot.com/200...-schedule.html

Rocket Racing League Announces Schedule, Velocity Aircraft Sold


Positioning itself as a "new entertainment sports league that combines
the exhilaration of racing with the power of rocket engines," the Rocket
Racing League announced that it will stage its first exhibition race at
Oshkosh this year. The vehicles will be liquid-oxygen-fueled rockets in
modified Velocity airframes. Three more exhibition races will be held at
Reno (September 10-14), at the X-Prize Cup (Las Cruces, NM, date TBA),
and at Aviation Nation, Nellis Air Force Base (November 8-9).

No doubt to ensure an adequate supply of airframes, RRL's subsidiary,
Rocket Racing Composite Corporation, has purchased Velocity Aircraft. It
is expected that Velocity will continue selling and servicing the
Velocity as an Experimental/Amateur-Built aircraft.

According to RRL, "Under the terms of the agreement, Velocity Aircraft
will become a wholly owned division of Rocket Racing Composite Corp. and
will produce an airframe that will be consistent for all competing
Rocket Racers. Through a rigorous research and development, all
Velocity-constructed Rocket Racers will be equipped with the
safest-possible airframe for any kind of aircraft. The cockpit seats for
all Rocket Racers will be reinforced to withstand impacts up to 20G load
and other safety measures will be added using a methodology similar to
that of F-1 and Indy Car to better protect pilots and passengers alike."

According to the press release, "Scott Baker, president of Velocity,
Inc. offered his enthusiastic remarks that, 'Velocity is truly excited
to be a part of Rocket Racing. Many of the technology advances that are
planned for the Rocket Racer models transcend and offer performance and
comfort benefits to Velocity owners who use their aircraft for personal
and business travel.' "


No word on the availability of the rocket engine for homebuilders.