Cherokee 180

The cherokee trim works by putting spring pressure on the rudder, not with a separate tab. Your rudder may be
out of rig, making it necessary to apply some pressure to put it straight. As far as I know, the indicator is
not adjustable. I think it is the edge of a washer on the threaded spring tensioner. It should center when the
rudder is properly rigged. You might start by looking to make sure the tension on the cables is correct, that
it properly goes over the pulleys and no pulleys are broken. Also check to make sure the rudder bar the pedals
are connected to is not slipping at the joint near the middle (as I recall there is a joint in the middle with a
bolt through it). Basically, what I am saying is that I don't think the indicator is the problem, rather it is
a symptom of a rigging problem.

Mike Beede wrote:

In article m, Steven Barnes wrote:

One thing that bothers me about the 180 we're getting is that it seems to
take almost full left rudder trim to keep the plane tracking straight with 2
people up front & both tanks full. Is that something that's easily fixed?
Keep trim where it is but reset the trim knob to center to allow for more
travel?

I can't answer that, but in best USENET tradition I have a question to follow
up: what is the position of the actual trimming surface (I don't know if there's
a separate tab or if, like on a Cessna, the rudder is just pulled over a little)?

Regards,

Mike

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

I do use mine occasionally for a long climb. I agree though that it is not a
necessary thing though.

Neal wrote:

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 17:59:18 -0500, Russell Kent
wrote:

Jay Honeck wrote:

And, BTW: did you know there is a rudder trim indicator on your 180? ;-)

Actually, didn't we determine that it is in fact a rudder trim control
indicator (i.e. indicates where the control currently is within its full

...and what a useless indicator it really is. I just twisted the knob
so that the ball was centered in straight and level flight with my
feet off the pedals and forgot about it. Haven't had to touch it again
in over 300 hours flying since then.

... and yes, I have touched the rudder pedals themselves at least a
few times in that 300+ hours ;-)

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

Steven Barnes wrote:
: We hope to close on Friday. Now I just gotta get CFI endorsement for the
: insurance so I can get the damn thing home!

I understand that completely. When we got our Cherokee 180, I was
almost done with my PPL in a 172. Ended up taking a "safety pilot" when I
went to fly it home. You can bet that was incentive to finally finish my
ticket when I had my "new" airplane sitting on the ramp that I couldn't
fly. I didn't want to throw money at an endorsement, familiarity flying,
etc, etc when I could do that my own self once I got my ticket. Within a
week, I had passed my checkride and gotten comfortable enough in it with a
pilot friend that flies cherokees for me to practice on my own... same
PPL-SEL as the 172.

Now comfortable, I'd like to fly the Cessna again to see what I
truly like better.

-Cory


--
************************************************** ***********************
* The prime directive of Linux: *
* - learn what you don't know, *
* - teach what you do. *
* (Just my 20 USm$) *
************************************************** ***********************

Neal wrote:
: ...and what a useless indicator it really is. I just twisted the knob
: so that the ball was centered in straight and level flight with my
: feet off the pedals and forgot about it. Haven't had to touch it again
: in over 300 hours flying since then.

True enough that the indicator has little use. The trim is good
for long climbs as someone mentioned, or if you snooze too long and forget
to switch tanks. The wing imbalance can be trimmed out with the rudder
trim, although you'll lose a little speed by flying sideways. Sometimes
worth it if the aileron pull keeps you flying in circles on the clouds...


-Cory

--
************************************************** ***********************
* The prime directive of Linux: *
* - learn what you don't know, *
* - teach what you do. *
* (Just my 20 USm$) *
************************************************** ***********************

wrote:
Neal wrote:
: ...and what a useless indicator it really is. I just twisted the knob
: so that the ball was centered in straight and level flight with my
: feet off the pedals and forgot about it. Haven't had to touch it again
: in over 300 hours flying since then.

True enough that the indicator has little use. The trim is good
for long climbs as someone mentioned, or if you snooze too long and forget
to switch tanks. The wing imbalance can be trimmed out with the rudder
trim, although you'll lose a little speed by flying sideways. Sometimes
worth it if the aileron pull keeps you flying in circles on the clouds...

In the 300 HP Lance I used to fly, S.O.P. was trim full right for takeoff and
climb, then full left for cruise and descent. Worked out about right.

Dave

Remove SHIRT to reply directly.

Wow, that is alot. I find that typically I only need about two turns either
direction.

Dave Butler wrote:

wrote:
Neal wrote:
: ...and what a useless indicator it really is. I just twisted the knob
: so that the ball was centered in straight and level flight with my
: feet off the pedals and forgot about it. Haven't had to touch it again
: in over 300 hours flying since then.

True enough that the indicator has little use. The trim is good
for long climbs as someone mentioned, or if you snooze too long and forget
to switch tanks. The wing imbalance can be trimmed out with the rudder
trim, although you'll lose a little speed by flying sideways. Sometimes
worth it if the aileron pull keeps you flying in circles on the clouds...

In the 300 HP Lance I used to fly, S.O.P. was trim full right for takeoff and
climb, then full left for cruise and descent. Worked out about right.

Dave

Remove SHIRT to reply directly.

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

On 6-Oct-2003, "Steven Barnes" wrote:

One thing that bothers me about the 180 we're getting is that it seems to
take almost full left rudder trim to keep the plane tracking straight with
2 people up front & both tanks full. Is that something that's easily
fixed?


The first thing I would do is to make sure that the "ball" (of the turn
coordinator or turn indicator) is centered when the airplane is sitting
level on the ground. We had the same issue (full left rudder trim required
to center the ball in cruise) with our Arrow, and discovered that the turn
coordinator instrument was slightly rotated in the panel, apparently because
the mounting screws had somehow loosened. Easy to fix, and probably added a
knot or three to cruise speed, since centering the ball prior to the fix
actually resulted in a slight slip.
--
-Elliott Drucker

Wow, that is alot. I find that typically I only need about two turns
either
direction.

Me, too -- three turns, at most -- and we've got 235 HP.

I guess 300 HP is, well, a bunch more horsepower!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:
Wow, that is alot. I find that typically I only need about two turns

either

direction.


Me, too -- three turns, at most -- and we've got 235 HP.

I guess 300 HP is, well, a bunch more horsepower!

....or maybe the springs in the rudder trim mechanism were weak.

Not only centered, but level. If you have one, take a level with you
to properly set the T&C in the panel.