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start making the ST21, AST21, ASF-14 and A-12 Flying Dorito!



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 1st 06, 07:15 PM posted to sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military.naval,us.military.navy
AirRaid[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16
Default start making the ST21, AST21, ASF-14 and A-12 Flying Dorito!

for cripes sake, the F/A-18E Super Hornet is not good enough to be the
navy's only fighter, and neither is the future JSF / F-35.

the Pentagon, Navy and NorthropeGrumman should resurrect plans for the

Super Tomcat 21
Attack Super Tomcat 21
and ASF-14 (Advanced Strike Fighter-14)

along with the 100-200 mile range Advanced Air To Air Missile

as well as the A-12 Avenger II 'Flying Dorito' aka mini stealth bomber


relying on the Super Hornet, it's almost as if the higher-ups who hate
america want the Navy to get its ass kicked and America to go down.

the Navy no longer officially has any mach 2.0+ fighters!

the Super Hornet should've been something of mach 2.5 class that went
into service in the late 80s, with even more powerful engines,
canards, and 3D-thrust vectoring to make it a super-maneuverable
fighter that could counter the Su-37 Terminator (and its brothers), but
with exellent attack capability.

the A-12 becomes the primary bomber/strike plane with the ability to
defend itself from other fighters.

the Super Tomcat 21 or the even more advanced ASF-14 would've been an
exellent alternative to the NATF / F-22N, a 1990s and 21st Century
FLEET DEFENDER with decent maneuverability, much easier to mantain,
crew of 1, 8, AAAMs plus 2 medium range AAMs plus 2 short range
AAMs, plus 30mm cannon and perhaps even a chemical laser for knife
fights. (smaller version of the Airborne Laser on the modified 747s.


plus the Attack Super Tomcat 21 (faster than the A-12 Avenger II) for
F-15 Strike Eagle-like capability.

plus a new class of supercarrier 2x the size of Nimitz-class, that's a
half a mile long. with an airwing of 150+ aircraft, to carry lots of
these new aircraft with their increased payload and needs.

plus a new small 'fast carrier', smaller than the Nimitz class, with
60-70 aircraft that can get across the world in 1/2 to 2/3 the time it
takes a supercarrier

oh yeah im dreaming now.


this is gonna be a big thread, i can feel in my bones.

hey, at least the videogame company SEGA has the right spirit by making
a new, modern AFTERBURNER arcade game, (AfterBurner Climax) with the
classic F-14D.
it brings back memories of the late 80s when the Navy was SUPREME.
not that the Navy isnt great, but clearly the Navy isnt getting what it
should have.

ok and this ends my rant.

  #2  
Old November 1st 06, 07:28 PM posted to sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military.naval,us.military.navy
Derek Lyons
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 30
Default start making the ST21, AST21, ASF-14 and A-12 Flying Dorito!

"AirRaid" wrote:

this is gonna be a big thread, i can feel in my bones.


Yah - ROTFLMAO takes up a lot of room it does.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL
  #3  
Old November 1st 06, 09:03 PM posted to sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military.naval,us.military.navy
John Gilbert
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default start making the ST21, AST21, ASF-14 and A-12 Flying Dorito!


plus a new small 'fast carrier', smaller than the Nimitz class, with
60-70 aircraft that can get across the world in 1/2 to 2/3 the time it
takes a supercarrier

oh yeah im dreaming now.


In general, if you want ships to go faster for great distances, you make
them bigger, not smaller.

John Gilbert



  #4  
Old November 1st 06, 10:25 PM posted to sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military.naval,us.military.navy
BlackBeard
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 79
Default start making the ST21, AST21, ASF-14 and A-12 Flying Dorito!


Derek Lyons wrote:
"AirRaid" wrote:

this is gonna be a big thread, i can feel in my bones.


Yah - ROTFLMAO takes up a lot of room it does.

D.

I get the impression his entire knowledge base for these matters is
based on his experience with SEGA....


BB

I guess everyone has some mountain to climb,
it's just fate whether you live in Tibet or Kansas...

  #5  
Old November 1st 06, 11:27 PM posted to sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military.naval,us.military.navy
Derek Lyons
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 30
Default start making the ST21, AST21, ASF-14 and A-12 Flying Dorito!

"John Gilbert" wrote:


plus a new small 'fast carrier', smaller than the Nimitz class, with
60-70 aircraft that can get across the world in 1/2 to 2/3 the time it
takes a supercarrier

oh yeah im dreaming now.


In general, if you want ships to go faster for great distances, you make
them bigger, not smaller.



John; wrestling with a pig does nothing but get you covered in pig****
and annoys the pig.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL
  #6  
Old November 1st 06, 11:34 PM posted to sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military.naval,us.military.navy
Derek Lyons
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 30
Default start making the ST21, AST21, ASF-14 and A-12 Flying Dorito!

"BlackBeard" wrote:


Derek Lyons wrote:
"AirRaid" wrote:

this is gonna be a big thread, i can feel in my bones.


Yah - ROTFLMAO takes up a lot of room it does.


I get the impression his entire knowledge base for these matters is
based on his experience with SEGA....


SEKA? The platinum blonde with floppy tits?

Yah, she had a navel.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL
  #7  
Old November 2nd 06, 07:43 PM posted to sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military.naval,us.military.navy
Jeb Hoge
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9
Default start making the ST21, AST21, ASF-14 and A-12 Flying Dorito!

AirRaid wrote:
for cripes sake, the F/A-18E Super Hornet is not good enough to be the
navy's only fighter, and neither is the future JSF / F-35.


By definition, if both of those planes exist, then neither one is the
Navy's only fighter.

the Pentagon, Navy and NorthropeGrumman should resurrect plans for the

Super Tomcat 21
Attack Super Tomcat 21
and ASF-14 (Advanced Strike Fighter-14)

along with the 100-200 mile range Advanced Air To Air Missile

as well as the A-12 Avenger II 'Flying Dorito' aka mini stealth bomber


Yeah, I thought those were cool when I was a kid too.

the Super Hornet should've been something of mach 2.5 class that went
into service in the late 80s, with even more powerful engines,
canards, and 3D-thrust vectoring to make it a super-maneuverable
fighter that could counter the Su-37 Terminator (and its brothers), but
with exellent attack capability.


Here's something I don't get. This "Terminator" name...it's just a
made-up name slapped on by...who, exactly? It's not a NATO reporting
name and I'm pretty sure it's not Sukhoi's name, but yet it gets passed
around as if it's not only a name but a description.

the A-12 becomes the primary bomber/strike plane with the ability to
defend itself from other fighters.

the Super Tomcat 21 or the even more advanced ASF-14 would've been an
exellent alternative to the NATF / F-22N, a 1990s and 21st Century
FLEET DEFENDER with decent maneuverability, much easier to mantain,
crew of 1, 8, AAAMs plus 2 medium range AAMs plus 2 short range
AAMs, plus 30mm cannon and perhaps even a chemical laser for knife
fights. (smaller version of the Airborne Laser on the modified 747s.


And a partridge in a pear tree...who's funding this, again?

plus the Attack Super Tomcat 21 (faster than the A-12 Avenger II) for
F-15 Strike Eagle-like capability.


That's what the F-35 is for, plus the F-35 is designed from the start
to be stealthy.

plus a new class of supercarrier 2x the size of Nimitz-class, that's a
half a mile long. with an airwing of 150+ aircraft, to carry lots of
these new aircraft with their increased payload and needs.

plus a new small 'fast carrier', smaller than the Nimitz class, with
60-70 aircraft that can get across the world in 1/2 to 2/3 the time it
takes a supercarrier


Or even better, more Nimitz-sized decks with improved catapults,
propulsion, radar, and combat systems. *waits...*

oh yeah im dreaming now.


this is gonna be a big thread, i can feel in my bones.

hey, at least the videogame company SEGA has the right spirit by making
a new, modern AFTERBURNER arcade game, (AfterBurner Climax) with the
classic F-14D.
it brings back memories of the late 80s when the Navy was SUPREME.
not that the Navy isnt great, but clearly the Navy isnt getting what it
should have.

ok and this ends my rant.


Hey, I loved the Tomcat too, but maintenance costs were killing the
squadrons and the airframes weren't going to get any younger (and RCS
any smaller).

  #8  
Old November 6th 06, 04:15 PM posted to sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military.naval,us.military.navy
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default start making the ST21, AST21, ASF-14 and A-12 Flying Dorito!


Jeb Hoge wrote:

....snip
Hey, I loved the Tomcat too, but maintenance costs were killing the
squadrons and the airframes weren't going to get any younger (and RCS
any smaller).



The proposed ST21 and the Strike F14 did have reduced RCS.

  #9  
Old January 2nd 07, 09:25 AM posted to sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military.naval,us.military.navy
Ski
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 29
Default New Carriers - Old refurbishments - New Navy Fighters that go FAR - FAST - and HIGH


You all seemd to me to have hit the main issues with the USN right now -
somehow the Navy has thrown away its good sense and started chasing courses
of action that will reduce its ability to deal with the world threats in
only from a defensive nature.

(1) New big carriers go fast, protect themselves better, and sustain more
everything but they can't start costing $10 billion plus each

(2) The F/A-18E/F/G has re-written the maintainability and sortie generation
books but it is no more then a more capable A-7 and not even an A-6 and
surely not an F-14 despite the maintenance nightmares.

(3) Since there is not a Naval F-22, hardly can't see the Typhoon working
sensibly, and we do not want to deal with the French for the Rafale (which
is the best Naval fighter around today) - then going back and redesigning a
super-Tomcat is not a bad idea and since now with the F-15E and F-14D we
have the right engines around - go for the digital improved all - electric
Tomcat.

(4) If we drop JSF STOVL and force only one configuration CTOL and then
slide the whole program to include a decade or so development the JSF could
absorb the UCS/UCAV and work to have manned - unmanned variants which makes
more sense and helps preserve the stealth if it works to keep the internal
weapon design (say maybe include something laser by then) - but this alone
could pay for the new Tomcat and a crash program it could be

(5) Now like it or not, the move from battle ship to carrier will have
another shift down the road and that may be sub-surface so the Navy may
really find that under-sea ops will be its big hitters and the whole surface
world may have to look again at what it is and should be.

But whatever it is - the present Navy is not it


  #10  
Old January 2nd 07, 08:04 PM posted to sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military.naval,us.military.navy
Paul J. Adam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 60
Default New Carriers - Old refurbishments - New Navy Fighters that go FAR - FAST - and HIGH

In message CFomh.8490$tc5.2604@trnddc01, Ski
writes
You all seemd to me to have hit the main issues with the USN right now -
somehow the Navy has thrown away its good sense and started chasing courses
of action that will reduce its ability to deal with the world threats in
only from a defensive nature.


(2) The F/A-18E/F/G has re-written the maintainability and sortie generation
books but it is no more then a more capable A-7 and not even an A-6 and
surely not an F-14 despite the maintenance nightmares.


Some issues there - the Hornet's much more survivable than the A-7 or
A-6, and certainly much more flexible (you couldn't multirole a Corsair
or Intruder airframe, let alone swing-role it - but the Hornet's been
doing that for twenty years).

The Hornet gets you flexibility and affordability, which is what the
Navy needs at the moment.

(3) Since there is not a Naval F-22, hardly can't see the Typhoon working
sensibly, and we do not want to deal with the French for the Rafale (which
is the best Naval fighter around today) - then going back and redesigning a
super-Tomcat is not a bad idea and since now with the F-15E and F-14D we
have the right engines around - go for the digital improved all - electric
Tomcat.


The Tomcat was a very specific answer to a very particular question,
that being "How do we deal with a regiment-plus of Badgers or Backfires
armed with supersonic high-diving carrier-killing ASMs?". Lacking that
threat, there's no urgent requirement for a Tomcat or replacement.

(4) If we drop JSF STOVL and force only one configuration CTOL and then
slide the whole program to include a decade or so development


In half a sentence you lose most of the customers. The STOVL variant was
added because there was a user requirement (US-led and then others
bought in) and if you "slide a decade" then you lose your export sales,
who didn't sign up for an extra ten-year gap.

(5) Now like it or not, the move from battle ship to carrier will have
another shift down the road and that may be sub-surface so the Navy may
really find that under-sea ops will be its big hitters and the whole surface
world may have to look again at what it is and should be.


Trouble there is that submarines are great for sea denial, but hopeless
for sea control. How do you escort oil tankers through the Straits of
Hormuz, or shiploads of evacuees out of Lebanon, with a submarine?

--
The nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its
warriors, will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done
by fools.
-Thucydides


Paul J. Adam - mainbox{at}jrwlynch[dot]demon(dot)codotuk
 




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