About German Mystery Objects

Bernardz wrote in message news:MPG.1a9b8d33930402ad9898f6@news...
In article ,
says...
Some say the technology came from an alien UFO that crashed near
Freiberg in 1936 and was taken to Himmler's castle at Wewelsberg,
reverse engineered. Nevertheless, Thule and Vril continued development
of these RFZ (RundFlugZeug) with models 1-6 up to 1939. By the start
of the war Vril had their own designs of which the often-quoted V-7 is
mentioned. This is a mislabel as it is not part of the

The designation V-1, V-2 etc was not used till late in the war.

The designation V was for "Versuchs" the German word for experimental.
Most german protduction aircraft had up to 30-100 V series aircraft
V1, V2..V7 and that was a trend that seems to have been in place
before the war etc on which various engine, weapons, modifications
were carried out. Occaisionaly some enteres sevice eg when the Arado
234 V5 and V7 were hurridly taken out of testing to photo recon the
D-day landings.

The use of the term V1 and V2 for the Fi 103 cruise missile and A4
Ballistic missile had the advantage of throing of allied intelligence.
The first the allies know about the Fi 103 was photo recon of the ski
ramps lauch sites german security was soi succesfull. Part of the
reaon for the botched first days of lauch was that all launches
involved a very complicated sequence that had to be done completely by
memory. No notes were allowed!




Vergeltungswaffen, just Vril-7. Meanwhile Thule came up with a more
advanced Triebwerk that utilized Coler's free energy machine, a Van
deGraf generator, a mercury sphere, and spherical levitators. This
engine was installed in the large Haunebu craft that flew the Atlantic
and made trips to an area Hitler knew would be safe from Allied
bombing, New Schwabenland in Antartica.

U-boats carried technicians and scientists to a base there, Number
211, via an undersea trench that stretched the entire way through what
was know formerly as Queen Maud Land. Base 211 was carved into a cave
complex similar to Nordhausen and supplied by transport subs,
components of which even the Type XXVI were taken. SS Antartic troops
maintained the base.

It was probably a designation that did exist as an intended
experimental type. apart from the electo u-boats type XXI and XXIII
there was the hydrogen peroxide walter boats and others using
compressed oxygen and diesel based on a Dai





Never heard of a U-boat base being given a number. No Type XXVI was ever
built in the war. Work only started on it, late in the war so how is it
suppose to be available in 1939? Nor is SS Antartic listed in a
complete list of every SS-Divisionen formed during WWII.


I like this story. It was better than the crap they taught me in
Sunday School. Give it 1000 years of retelling it will end up like
the Ark of the Covenent story and we'll have another new ethnocentric
religion.

Well i believe in the German UFO technology in WW2 and jet propelled
objects disc shapes.

If the German scientists and co were so much more advanced then the
Allies with jets and new inventions from 1930s-1945, who knows what else
was created that after the war the Allies dare not want the public to
see..

Even today WW1 secret dealing with US army records are still highly
guarded.. so i can suspect we only saw a tip of iceberg from ww2.

Remember the german as we know were very creative with jets in 40s in
the designs.. so they had big plans by the 50s if it had occurred.
Virtually all US designs followed from them.

Flying wings or discs were nothing new... why do americans think they
are the only ones to be right? Thats is always how americans think,
someone esle designed it but they claim it.

Every country has secrets and protects them like a baby.. germany could
of had a UFO crashes and the world would of not even known bar the high
order of power... Its like saying Groom Lake is controlled by the CIA,
which it is... SS could of easily controlled any UFO programs in
germany.

Americans need to think outside their box.. and credit germans for alot
of their current technology and machines...

Even if UFos were not common knowledge in 1940s, they are nowdays.

Eunometic wrote:

Bernardz wrote in message news:MPG.1a9b8d33930402ad9898f6@news...
In article ,
says...
Some say the technology came from an alien UFO that crashed near
Freiberg in 1936 and was taken to Himmler's castle at Wewelsberg,
reverse engineered. Nevertheless, Thule and Vril continued development
of these RFZ (RundFlugZeug) with models 1-6 up to 1939. By the start
of the war Vril had their own designs of which the often-quoted V-7 is
mentioned. This is a mislabel as it is not part of the

The designation V-1, V-2 etc was not used till late in the war.

The designation V was for "Versuchs" the German word for experimental.
Most german protduction aircraft had up to 30-100 V series aircraft
V1, V2..V7 and that was a trend that seems to have been in place
before the war etc on which various engine, weapons, modifications
were carried out. Occaisionaly some enteres sevice eg when the Arado
234 V5 and V7 were hurridly taken out of testing to photo recon the
D-day landings.

The use of the term V1 and V2 for the Fi 103 cruise missile and A4
Ballistic missile had the advantage of throing of allied intelligence.
The first the allies know about the Fi 103 was photo recon of the ski
ramps lauch sites german security was soi succesfull. Part of the
reaon for the botched first days of lauch was that all launches
involved a very complicated sequence that had to be done completely by
memory. No notes were allowed!



Vergeltungswaffen, just Vril-7. Meanwhile Thule came up with a more
advanced Triebwerk that utilized Coler's free energy machine, a Van
deGraf generator, a mercury sphere, and spherical levitators. This
engine was installed in the large Haunebu craft that flew the Atlantic
and made trips to an area Hitler knew would be safe from Allied
bombing, New Schwabenland in Antartica.

U-boats carried technicians and scientists to a base there, Number
211, via an undersea trench that stretched the entire way through what
was know formerly as Queen Maud Land. Base 211 was carved into a cave
complex similar to Nordhausen and supplied by transport subs,
components of which even the Type XXVI were taken. SS Antartic troops
maintained the base.

It was probably a designation that did exist as an intended
experimental type. apart from the electo u-boats type XXI and XXIII
there was the hydrogen peroxide walter boats and others using
compressed oxygen and diesel based on a Dai




Never heard of a U-boat base being given a number. No Type XXVI was ever
built in the war. Work only started on it, late in the war so how is it
suppose to be available in 1939? Nor is SS Antartic listed in a
complete list of every SS-Divisionen formed during WWII.

I like this story. It was better than the crap they taught me in
Sunday School. Give it 1000 years of retelling it will end up like
the Ark of the Covenent story and we'll have another new ethnocentric
religion.

Aerophotos wrote in message ...
Well i believe in the German UFO technology in WW2 and jet propelled
objects disc shapes.

If the German scientists and co were so much more advanced then the
Allies with jets and new inventions from 1930s-1945, who knows what else
was created that after the war the Allies dare not want the public to
see..

Even today WW1 secret dealing with US army records are still highly
guarded.. so i can suspect we only saw a tip of iceberg from ww2.

Remember the german as we know were very creative with jets in 40s in
the designs.. so they had big plans by the 50s if it had occurred.
Virtually all US designs followed from them.

Flying wings or discs were nothing new... why do americans think they
are the only ones to be right? Thats is always how americans think,
someone esle designed it but they claim it.

Every country has secrets and protects them like a baby.. germany could
of had a UFO crashes and the world would of not even known bar the high
order of power... Its like saying Groom Lake is controlled by the CIA,
which it is... SS could of easily controlled any UFO programs in
germany.

Americans need to think outside their box.. and credit germans for alot
of their current technology and machines...

Even if UFos were not common knowledge in 1940s, they are nowdays.

Well said. Three cheers for the guy with a brain!
I'll give you another example comparison between US and German tech
from 1945.
Had the war gone on just until the fall of 1945 the German soldier
would have had: a new M44 stalhelm, M44 Liebermuster camouflage (which
contained carbon and IR defeating dyes), the STG-45 assault rifle, the
Pzf 150 AT weapon, and Nipolit formed disc grenades.
Now compare that with the shabby US Army soldier with the old M-1 and
a Bazooka. Hell, in Korea we still looked inferior to the WW2 German
Waffen SS soldier who had cammo, IR, the STG-44 assault rifle, and Pzf
100.
So much for US superiority in all areas.

Rob

From: (robert arndt)


I'll give you another example comparison between US and German tech
from 1945.
Had the war gone on just until the fall of 1945 the German soldier
would have had: a new M44 stalhelm, M44 Liebermuster camouflage (which
contained carbon and IR defeating dyes), the STG-45 assault rifle, the
Pzf 150 AT weapon, and Nipolit formed disc grenades.
Now compare that with the shabby US Army soldier with the old M-1 and
a Bazooka.

Rob

And if the war had just lasted 6 months longer you still would have lost and
have been the target of at least 2 atomic bombs. Get over it, you were defeated
by Russians, Brits, Americans etc in shabby uniforms, M1s and bolt action
rifles who would not have been there if you hadn't started the war in the first
place. All your wonder weapons wouldn't have staved off defeat. Your "leaders"
would still have suicided. Your country was in ruins politically, morally,
economically and militarily.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Had the war gone on just until the fall of 1945 the German soldier
would have

starved.

Now compare that with the shabby US Army soldier with the old M-1 and
a Bazooka. Hell, in Korea we still looked inferior to the WW2 German
Waffen SS soldier who had cammo, IR, the STG-44 assault rifle, and Pzf
100.

Well, except they were extinct by then. "If pigs had wings"...

So much for US superiority in all areas.

There is only one statistic that matters.

Gordon
====(A+C====
USN SAR

Donate your memories - write a note on the back and send your old photos to a
reputable museum, don't take them with you when you're gone.

"robert arndt" wrote in message
om...


Well said. Three cheers for the guy with a brain!
I'll give you another example comparison between US and German tech
from 1945.
Had the war gone on just until the fall of 1945 the German soldier
would have had: a new M44 stalhelm, M44 Liebermuster camouflage (which
contained carbon and IR defeating dyes), the STG-45 assault rifle, the
Pzf 150 AT weapon, and Nipolit formed disc grenades.

Reliant on horse drawn vehicles for resupply.

The most shocking thing for most British soldiers when they closed
the Falaise gap was to discover that most German army units
were totally reliant on horse and cart to deliver supplies
from the railhead. Every British Infantry division had been
motorised since 1945 and they also realised that while the
SS might be well supplied with weapons and material
the average Wermacht soldier had to walk into battle on his
own two legs, was armed with the 5 shot bolt action
Karabiner 98k rifle of 1898 vintage and WW1 designed
hand grenades. The Panzershreck was of course inspired
by the Bazooka

Had they managed to survive into 1945 without being Nuked
the Germans would have been facing large numbers
of M-26 and Centurion battle tanks which were
superior to anything they had and fleets of the new US and
British jet fighters. Germany was on the wrong side of the
arms production curve from 1942 onwards. There was no
other way to go than down.

Keith

Except, of course, for the fact that the US along with its allies won
the war.

Then again, the US possessed overwhelming technological superiority in
Vietnam, and still lost.

So what's your point? Mine is that being "technologically" superior
doesn't win wars. If war is an extension of politics by other (more
violent) means (as per Clausewitzl, Lenin and Mao), it's will that
matters. With that in mind, the lessons of both WWII and Vietnam have
already been written. The lessons of ongoing conflicts have yet to be
discerned.

I'd also argue that no nation is superior "in all areas." Certainly
not when we're talking about a conflict that ended nearly 60 years
ago, and in favor of the technologically "inferior" side. When
discussing the merits or deficiencies of US military power, please
choose a more current subject. There are, after all, plenty more
current episodes to choose from.

- M.S.

(robert arndt) wrote in message . com...
Aerophotos wrote in message ...
Well i believe in the German UFO technology in WW2 and jet propelled
objects disc shapes.

If the German scientists and co were so much more advanced then the
Allies with jets and new inventions from 1930s-1945, who knows what else
was created that after the war the Allies dare not want the public to
see..

Even today WW1 secret dealing with US army records are still highly
guarded.. so i can suspect we only saw a tip of iceberg from ww2.

Remember the german as we know were very creative with jets in 40s in
the designs.. so they had big plans by the 50s if it had occurred.
Virtually all US designs followed from them.

Flying wings or discs were nothing new... why do americans think they
are the only ones to be right? Thats is always how americans think,
someone esle designed it but they claim it.

Every country has secrets and protects them like a baby.. germany could
of had a UFO crashes and the world would of not even known bar the high
order of power... Its like saying Groom Lake is controlled by the CIA,
which it is... SS could of easily controlled any UFO programs in
germany.

Americans need to think outside their box.. and credit germans for alot
of their current technology and machines...

Even if UFos were not common knowledge in 1940s, they are nowdays.

Well said. Three cheers for the guy with a brain!
I'll give you another example comparison between US and German tech
from 1945.
Had the war gone on just until the fall of 1945 the German soldier
would have had: a new M44 stalhelm, M44 Liebermuster camouflage (which
contained carbon and IR defeating dyes), the STG-45 assault rifle, the
Pzf 150 AT weapon, and Nipolit formed disc grenades.
Now compare that with the shabby US Army soldier with the old M-1 and
a Bazooka. Hell, in Korea we still looked inferior to the WW2 German
Waffen SS soldier who had cammo, IR, the STG-44 assault rifle, and Pzf
100.
So much for US superiority in all areas.

Rob

If the German scientists and co were so much more advanced then the
Allies with jets and new inventions from 1930s-1945, who knows what else
was created that after the war the Allies dare not want the public to
see..

But their leads were momentary, if at all. Allied jet fighters were introduced
within months of German aircraft - and the main differences were primarily in
the life expectancy of the crew and MTBF for the airframes, so perhaps the idea
of 'first' didn't necessarily equate to 'better' or 'best'. We could have
rushed the P-80 into service a wee bit faster if we hung workers suspected of
slacking off or whipped them to make them work harder, but that isn't our way.
German centimetric airborne radar development was a full generation behind
Allied sets, allowing the cream of the NJG forces and hundreds of night bombers
to be destroyed by Allied nightfighters. The list of technological failures is
every bit as dramatic as their successes. Hell, the brown shirt "geniuses"
didn't even realize the Allies were reading their coded messages just as fast
as they were transmitted.

Even today WW1 secret dealing with US army records are still highly
guarded.. so i can suspect we only saw a tip of iceberg from ww2.

True, but it was a mid-1940s iceberg, not some sort of futuristic engineering
eutopia where normal linear development is suspended, I guess because the
Fuhrer willed it to be so? The critical limiting factors to all of the
wunderwaffe, SS discs and secret bases, are time and resources - they were
quickly running out of both and no matter how inventive, these guys were being
directed by criminally inefficient and certifiably crazy egomaniacs that had no
true interest in sciences. Just what sort of usable engineering gets created
within the walls of Bedlam?

Remember the german as we know were very creative with jets in 40s in
the designs.. so they had big plans by the 50s if it had occurred.
Virtually all US designs followed from them.

Ahh, nuts.

Flying wings or discs were nothing new... why do americans think they
are the only ones to be right? Thats is always how americans think,
someone esle designed it but they claim it.

So we just swapped from a discussion about flying discs of the SS to sweeping
generalizations about how you perceive that "americans think"?

Every country has secrets and protects them like a baby.. germany could
of had a UFO crashes and the world would of not even known bar the high
order of power...

Tell me that Goebbels wouldn't have been shouting it in the streets,
proclaiming how the invincible Luftwaffe had shot down the offending
other-worldly craft?

Its like saying Groom Lake is controlled by the CIA,
which it is... SS could of easily controlled any UFO programs in
germany.


There are many witnesses to everything else the SS did - and each of their
captured facilities eventually gave up their most disgusting, private secrets,
what makes this particular secret so much more...uhhh...keepable?

Americans need to think outside their box.. and credit germans for alot
of their current technology and machines...

We assimilate everyone's technology - just like Germany and just about
everyone else for that matter. I defy your suggestion that German engineers
operated in some sort of intellectual vaccuum, producing new items for our
drones to copy without every hearing of adjacent technologies in Allied
countries. Both sides germinated the other with ideas and concepts.

Even if UFos were not common knowledge in 1940s, they are nowdays.

Nowdays is 60 years past the last RLM-authorized design - technologies and
materials undreamed of by the von Brauns and the Kammlers of the 1940s have
existed for decades, molding and driving aviation in entirely new directions.
Current "UFOs" have nothing at all to do with the Last Reich or its dreams.

v/r
Gordon
====(A+C====
USN SAR

Donate your memories - write a note on the back and send your old photos to a
reputable museum, don't take them with you when you're gone.

Krztalizer wrote:


If the German scientists and co were so much more advanced then the
Allies with jets and new inventions from 1930s-1945, who knows what else
was created that after the war the Allies dare not want the public to
see..

But their leads were momentary, if at all. Allied jet fighters were introduced
within months of German aircraft - and the main differences were primarily in
the life expectancy of the crew and MTBF for the airframes, so perhaps the idea
of 'first' didn't necessarily equate to 'better' or 'best'. We could have
rushed the P-80 into service a wee bit faster if we hung workers suspected of
slacking off or whipped them to make them work harder, but that isn't our way.
German centimetric airborne radar development was a full generation behind
Allied sets, allowing the cream of the NJG forces and hundreds of night bombers
to be destroyed by Allied nightfighters. The list of technological failures is
every bit as dramatic as their successes. Hell, the brown shirt "geniuses"
didn't even realize the Allies were reading their coded messages just as fast
as they were transmitted.

Even today WW1 secret dealing with US army records are still highly
guarded.. so i can suspect we only saw a tip of iceberg from ww2.

True, but it was a mid-1940s iceberg, not some sort of futuristic engineering
eutopia where normal linear development is suspended, I guess because the
Fuhrer willed it to be so? The critical limiting factors to all of the
wunderwaffe, SS discs and secret bases, are time and resources - they were
quickly running out of both and no matter how inventive, these guys were being
directed by criminally inefficient and certifiably crazy egomaniacs that had no
true interest in sciences. Just what sort of usable engineering gets created
within the walls of Bedlam?

Remember the german as we know were very creative with jets in 40s in
the designs.. so they had big plans by the 50s if it had occurred.
Virtually all US designs followed from them.

Ahh, nuts.

Flying wings or discs were nothing new... why do americans think they
are the only ones to be right? Thats is always how americans think,
someone esle designed it but they claim it.

So we just swapped from a discussion about flying discs of the SS to sweeping
generalizations about how you perceive that "americans think"?

Every country has secrets and protects them like a baby.. germany could
of had a UFO crashes and the world would of not even known bar the high
order of power...

Tell me that Goebbels wouldn't have been shouting it in the streets,
proclaiming how the invincible Luftwaffe had shot down the offending
other-worldly craft?

Really now...??? and do i hear George Bush or past Presidentos claiming
Area 51 open to public and news media?

No ....cause they like german high command wana keep it private and
secret not to scare the rest of the world...



Its like saying Groom Lake is controlled by the CIA,
which it is... SS could of easily controlled any UFO programs in
germany.


There are many witnesses to everything else the SS did - and each of their
captured facilities eventually gave up their most disgusting, private secrets,
what makes this particular secret so much more...uhhh...keepable?

Well how come all the secrets of ww2 and since are still locked away
with people not allowed to speak????, got to wonder why they are all
gagged and threatened if they speak.

Remember that Area 51 guy Bob Lazar? how come the CIA and co made him
shut up? if he was a loony they wouldn't care but they made him be quiet
or else... so explain it



Americans need to think outside their box.. and credit germans for alot
of their current technology and machines...

We assimilate everyone's technology - just like Germany and just about
everyone else for that matter. I defy your suggestion that German engineers
operated in some sort of intellectual vaccuum, producing new items for our
drones to copy without every hearing of adjacent technologies in Allied
countries. Both sides germinated the other with ideas and concepts.

How come every 1950s us jet was designed from captured german
technologies and scientists?



Even if UFos were not common knowledge in 1940s, they are nowdays.

Nowdays is 60 years past the last RLM-authorized design - technologies and
materials undreamed of by the von Brauns and the Kammlers of the 1940s have
existed for decades, molding and driving aviation in entirely new directions.
Current "UFOs" have nothing at all to do with the Last Reich or its dreams.

Gordon your a non believer and thus dont belong here, your time to leave
the discussion has arrived, goodbye narrow minded american..

German was technology and vastly superior in everything ... even the
Kevlar PASGT helmet design was copied. Bet you'll find some american
claim next?



v/r
Gordon\

"Krztalizer" wrote in message
...

If the German scientists and co were so much more advanced then the
Allies with jets and new inventions from 1930s-1945, who knows what
else
was created that after the war the Allies dare not want the public
to
see..


A bemusing little troll. It's equivalent to an American saying that
the Philidephia Experiment really happened. Interesting how everyone
including some mature posters is hooked in though.

But their leads were momentary, if at all. Allied jet fighters were
introduced
within months of German aircraft - and the main differences were
primarily in
the life expectancy of the crew and MTBF for the airframes, so
perhaps the idea
of 'first' didn't necessarily equate to 'better' or 'best'.

To be fair compromises in some aspects of quality were necessary to
redress the quantitative advantages of the allies. the life of a
German airframe was not much in anycase. Note the work they did do
on ejection seats.

We could have
rushed the P-80 into service a wee bit faster if we hung workers
suspected of
slacking off or whipped them to make them work harder, but that
isn't our way.

Actually forced or conscripted labour in production was fairly well
treated and fed, it had to be. It was that labour used in the
exacavation of underground works that appears to have suffered
severely.


German centimetric airborne radar development was a full generation
behind
Allied sets, allowing the cream of the NJG forces and hundreds of
night bombers
to be destroyed by Allied nightfighters. The list of technological
failures is
every bit as dramatic as their successes.

Quite true. The time periode between the discovery of the rotterdam
Garate (a H2S Magnetron lost on a Sterling in Feb 1943) and the
appearence of A few FuG 244 equiped Ju 88G7s in Jan 1945 is about 23
months.

The original German magnetron and microwave development team had been
conscripted into the army and had to be recalled so that expertise was
available. Even before that was done the presence of the magnetron
on ground mapping radar was taken as proof that microwave radar was
not good.

Hell, the brown shirt "geniuses"
didn't even realize the Allies were reading their coded messages
just as fast
as they were transmitted.

Actually craking the code required a mistake to be made and a long
message and when keys changed it could be a while before the were
cracked again. When the u boats began receiving individual messages
in late 1944 with their own unique keys the codes were never cracked.



Even today WW1 secret dealing with US army records are still highly
guarded.. so i can suspect we only saw a tip of iceberg from ww2.

True, but it was a mid-1940s iceberg, not some sort of futuristic
engineering
eutopia where normal linear development is suspended, I guess
because the
Fuhrer willed it to be so? The critical limiting factors to all of
the
wunderwaffe, SS discs and secret bases, are time and resources -
they were
quickly running out of both and no matter how inventive, these guys
were being
directed by criminally inefficient and certifiably crazy egomaniacs
that had no
true interest in sciences. Just what sort of usable engineering
gets created
within the walls of Bedlam?

There truely were some unnecesary stuff up that could have been
avoided if the leadership understood how technology progesses. The
fact that all German radars shared a single frequency and the secrecy
sourounding the effectiveness soruning 'duppel' or the German version
of Window which had so much secrecy placed upon it proper
countermeasures could not be developed.