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#81
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IFR use of handheld GPS
"150flivver" wrote in message oups.com... In navigator training back when we actually used a sextant, whenever our mission called for legs using celestial navigation ATC would give us a celnav clearance. This allowed us much more airspace than a "direct" clearance as celestial nav was less precise than other methods of navigation. Yes, but probably not as less precise as you think! |
#82
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IFR use of handheld GPS
"Sam Spade" wrote in message news:MpR6g.175231$bm6.132922@fed1read04... Part 95, IFR Altitudes establishes MEAs and is the authority for airways and Jet Routes. Those airways are rules, just like an instrument approach procedure is a rule. With instrument approach procedures (in addition to RNAV/GPS IAPs) you have VOR and NBD IAPs that are approved for overlay flight with GPS. That is the authorization to substitute GPS for VOR, where authorized on the chart. You don't have any overlay (i.e., standalone, non-radar) authorization fo Victor Airways or Jet Routes. Thus, if you are not in a radar environment you cannot use RNAV as primary for Victor airways or Jet Routes. Does anyone care? Only if something goes wrong. There are a few Q Routes, which are predicated solely on RNAV, but thus far they have been established where traffic volumne is high and radar is available. They are pretty much for the airlines in the lower 48, thus far. And, I believe they are all in the high altitude stratum. As I said before, Alaska has a special authorization that specifically permits GPS/RNAV overlay of Victor airways. You haven't cited a rule. |
#83
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IFR use of handheld GPS
"Bob Noel" wrote in message ... And how many AC's are referenced in the FARs? I don't know. You'll have to count them yourself. |
#84
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IFR use of handheld GPS
So, the initial purpose of this thread was to discuss whether or not one
could use a handheld GPS for IFR navigation. Lots of people have been tossing around lots of opinions with little or no references to rules or guidance to back them up (hardly surprising...this is usenet after all...) Anyway, for my own personal edification and enlightenment, I went and tracked down the official FAA Advisory Circular that specifies what the requirements are for the use of GPS under IFR. It's entitled "Airworthiness Approval of Navigation or Flight Management Systems Integrating Multiple Navigation Sensors", and is FAA AC 20-130A. It's about as exciting to read as the dictionary (again, hardly surprising). However, the Gleim Instrument Pilot Flight Manueuvers and Practical Test Prep guide (which is where I found the reference in the first place) does a nice job of summarizing the requirements for use of GPS under IFR as specified in AC 20-130A. It states: Authorization to conduct any GPS operation under IFR requires that: a) GPS navigation equipment used must be FAA-approved and the installation must be done in accordance with FAA requirements i) Approval for the use of the GPS for IFR operations, and any limitations, will be found in the airplane's POH (also called the FAA-approved Airplane Flight Manual) and the airplane's logbook ii) VFR and hand-held GPS systems are not authorized for IFR navigation, for instrument approaches, or as a principle instrument flight references. During IFR operations, they may be considered only an aid to situational awareness. Aircraft using GPS navigation equipment under IFR must be equipped with an approved and operational alternate means of navigation appropriate to the flight. a) Active monitoring of the alternative navigation equipment is not required if the GPS receiver uses RAIM for integrity monitoring. b) Active monitoring of the alternative navigation equipment is required when the RAIM capability of the GPS equipment is lost. This seems fairly clear to me..... -- Dane |
#85
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IFR use of handheld GPS
In article ,
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote: And how many AC's are referenced in the FARs? I don't know. You'll have to count them yourself. can you find even one? -- Bob Noel Looking for a sig the lawyers will hate |
#86
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IFR use of handheld GPS
Steven P. McNicoll wrote: wrote in message oups.com... The ATC folks like to quote FAA Order 7110.65R http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/ATC/Chp5/atc0505.html#5-5-1 which says, among other stuff that I don't understand, that "Radar separation shall be applied to all RNAV aircraft operating on a random (impromptu) route at or below FL 450..." You're in the wrong chapter. See paragraphs 4-1-1 and 4-1-2 at the link below: http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/ATC/Chp4/atc0401.html Uh, you are referencing procedures for issuing a direct clearance to a navaid, what I quoted was for the ever popular direct-to-an-airport clearance, if I am understanding things right. It shows up again as Note 1 in paragraph 4-1-2. |
#87
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IFR use of handheld GPS
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Sam Spade" wrote in message news:J4F6g.175209$bm6.131782@fed1read04... My caution applies primarily in the Western DMA. You are home free in the middle of the country above 4,000, or so, and 8,000, or so in the Eastern DMA. In the Western DMA there are airways a whole lot lower than areas between them. An MIA applies to the areas between them. And, we hope it is applied. |
#88
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IFR use of handheld GPS
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
Actually, I did answer your question, twice. You're just too dim to realize it. You wrote, some time ago now; "The 'rule' is that direct routes initiated by ATC are limited to the service volume of VOR (or rarely, NDBs) and the controller can assure that MIAs will not be violated." The "rule" has nothing to do with service volumes. NAVAID usable distance limits in FAAO 7110.65 are based on MSL altitudes and flight levels, service volumes are based on AGL altitudes. Is the bulb any brighter now? No, I need more help to understand how VOR or NDB direct-route assignments by ATC are based on AGL altitudes. |
#89
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IFR use of handheld GPS
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Sam Spade" wrote in message news:MpR6g.175231$bm6.132922@fed1read04... Part 95, IFR Altitudes establishes MEAs and is the authority for airways and Jet Routes. Those airways are rules, just like an instrument approach procedure is a rule. With instrument approach procedures (in addition to RNAV/GPS IAPs) you have VOR and NBD IAPs that are approved for overlay flight with GPS. That is the authorization to substitute GPS for VOR, where authorized on the chart. You don't have any overlay (i.e., standalone, non-radar) authorization fo Victor Airways or Jet Routes. Thus, if you are not in a radar environment you cannot use RNAV as primary for Victor airways or Jet Routes. Does anyone care? Only if something goes wrong. There are a few Q Routes, which are predicated solely on RNAV, but thus far they have been established where traffic volumne is high and radar is available. They are pretty much for the airlines in the lower 48, thus far. And, I believe they are all in the high altitude stratum. As I said before, Alaska has a special authorization that specifically permits GPS/RNAV overlay of Victor airways. You haven't cited a rule. I cited Part 95. It is a rule. |
#90
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IFR use of handheld GPS
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Sam Spade" wrote in message news:2Xx6g.175203$bm6.65816@fed1read04... You are not allowed to use an IFR-certified GPS for en route (domestic airspace) in a non-radar environment except with the special Alaska provisions. Nonsense. Where is your reference that GPS is primary for sole means en route navigation? |
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