Todays Cost of getting a PPL

"gpsman" wrote in message
oups.com...
Kyle Boatright wrote:

When you have 5 hours you haven't yet had the opportunity to have
learned the subtle points, nor develop much "touch" to lose.

The less you know and the less experience you have the less skills seem
to be necessary and the easier everything seems to be... since you
haven't yet broken the surface of knowledge or skill.

Point taken, but not entirely agreed with. The fact remains that a pilot who
is at the circuits part of the training, regardless of how many hours he's
taken to get there, has sufficient "touch" to be able to control the
aircraft with minimal to no input from an instructor. True, the instructor
must be with the student at all times, but the idea is for the student to
actually 'fly' the aircraft, with the instructor leaving the controls alone
unless necessary to avoid an incident. The fact I'm not solo yet doesn't
mean I can't fly. I can fly, well enough for circuits at least, just perhaps
not well enough to get myself out of trouble should anything untoward
happen, hence the requirement for the instructor to be with me. Surely if a
student can get an aircraft off the ground, around a full circuit, and back
on the ground again in one piece, without the instructor touching the
controls, he has enough "touch" to lose!
Oz/Crash Lander

"Crash Lander" wrote in message
...
"gpsman" wrote in message
oups.com...
Kyle Boatright wrote:

When you have 5 hours you haven't yet had the opportunity to have
learned the subtle points, nor develop much "touch" to lose.

The less you know and the less experience you have the less skills seem
to be necessary and the easier everything seems to be... since you
haven't yet broken the surface of knowledge or skill.

Point taken, but not entirely agreed with. The fact remains that a pilot
who is at the circuits part of the training, regardless of how many hours
he's taken to get there, has sufficient "touch" to be able to control the
aircraft with minimal to no input from an instructor. True, the instructor
must be with the student at all times, but the idea is for the student to
actually 'fly' the aircraft, with the instructor leaving the controls
alone unless necessary to avoid an incident. The fact I'm not solo yet
doesn't mean I can't fly. I can fly, well enough for circuits at least,
just perhaps not well enough to get myself out of trouble should anything
untoward happen, hence the requirement for the instructor to be with me.
Surely if a student can get an aircraft off the ground, around a full
circuit, and back on the ground again in one piece, without the instructor
touching the controls, he has enough "touch" to lose!
Oz/Crash Lander

You are absolutely right about this CL. A good instructor will only fly the
airplane long enough to demonstrate something to the student then give the
airplane right back to the student. For all intent and purposes, the student
should be the one actually on the controls from startup to shutdown.
By the time you get into the pattern you should have a good foundation of
the basics and all the pattern should be is an extension of those basics
flown to tighter and closer tolerances.
A good instructor knows exactly how far to let the student fly into an
error. The exceptional instructor starts talking the student into correcting
any error on their own, without physical intervention by the instructor.
There are of course times when an instructor has to correct physically, but
this should be viewed as the exception; not the rule!
Dudley Henriques

Crash Lander writes:

No it's not. It's a hobby for people who know how to manage the money they
have.

If you don't have thousands of dollars to spare, no amount of
management will allow you to fly.

I'm married, with 2 kids. We have only 1 income, which is by no means large.
I pay rent, have personal load and credit card debt, and no, repeat NO
savings what-soever, yet I am still able to fly.

Show me the numbers.

It's all about budgeting what resources you do have, and as long as you are
prepared to for-go a lesson should something urgent come up that demands the
funds be spent on it, anyone can do it.

Show me the numbers. Vague statements are not persuasive.

--
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Judah writes:

But by the same token, some people can't afford to spend $12k over 5 years
on a used car. Does that make driving a rich man's hobby as well?

In areas where cars are not necessary, yes. In areas where you need a
car to have a job, it just means a deeper decline into poverty.

Some people can't afford to take a $5,000 vacation to Disney World or the
Bahamas, either. Does that make vacationing a rich man's hobby?

It depends on the cost of a vacation. Five thousand dollars is a lot
of money for many American families, and even more so for people
living abroad (but they would not be able to visit WDW for just $5000,
anyway).

You have claimed that your income level is extremely low. Can you afford a
$12,000 car? Can you afford a $5,000 vacation?

No to both questions. Right now I have about eight euro, total.

--
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Jay Honeck writes:

Things obtained for little or no money or effort are likewise valued little.

So I guess adopted children are valued much less than business jets
and large homes.

Whoa! Non sequitor...?

Not at all. The cost of adopting a child is much lower than the cost
of a business jet or a large home. If things obtained for little or
no money or effort are likewise valued little, then adopted children
should be valued less than jets and homes, because they certainly cost
less.

--
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Jay Honeck writes:

When I learned to fly, I had no time, and EXACTLY the amount of money
needed to get my PPL -- no more, no less. I actually drained my
savings account the same week that I took my checkride.

A savings account? What's that?

There was no money in the budget for flying. None. We flew when we
could based solely on bonus commission checks from my job, and
birthday/Christmas gifts.

Bonus commissions? Christmas gifts? What are those?

This proved to be a great incentive to succeed, since I knew that I
could not fly without more income. That driving desire to get (and
remain) airborne has propelled me to start three successful businesses
-- something I probably would not have done without the incentive of
flight.

That's a viable option in the U.S., for sure.

Once again proving the old adage: "If you want something badly enough,
you will find a way..."

That's true if you don't place a time limit on finding a way.
Anything is possible if you have eternity.

--
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Crash Lander writes:

This makes no sense to me. Pick any group of 30 'young people'. Guaranteed
at least 28 of them will have an iPod, a car with a stereo in it that cost
about $400 more than it's worth, $400 running shoes, the latest computer
with all the bells and whistles etc, etc.

They don't buy it themselves. The money generally comes from their
parents. Most young people, if they are working at all, must take
entry-level jobs that don't necessarily pay very well.

You make financial decisions every day. Do I buy the brand name ice cream,
or the generic brand ice cream.

It's more like "do I pay the rent, or the electric bill?"

For me? I'd gladly sacrifice ice cream and all the other little un-necessary
luxuries we take for granted if it will give me another hour in the sky.

Will you sacrifice necessities as well?

How much was your flight simulator?

About 30 euro, I think.

What about the computer system you run it on?

I don't own the computer I use.

Probably just under one third of the cost of a PPL I'd reakon.

$4000? No, not by a long shot.

It's all about priorities and managing what you have.

Sometimes it's about not having anything.

--
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B A R R Y writes:

You bring your own to the airport.

How do you find a female pilot to begin with?

"Wanna' do some sightseeing? I'm a pilot", works as well for the 21
year olds I know as "Would you like to come see my band?" worked for
me @ 21. G

I think it's more a matter of who is asking.

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Jim Logajan writes:

Did you just make up your "one in a thousand" number? Where did you get
that number?

I speculated. So, what's the real number?

--
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Mxsmanic wrote:

How do you find a female pilot to begin with?

you shut down the computer, take a shower, shave,
put on clean clothes, and *get outside!!!* (you
know, outside, where there are actual real living
and breathing people, some of whom are female);

now it is not 100% guaranteed to work (might require
a few additional adjustments), but if you don't I
can guarantee you it won't work.

But then, you probably have a theory about that too.

--Sylvain