Yeager Oops

At 80 years old, Yeager may have to take a hard look at whether or not
age is cutting into his abilities. A friend of mine is 82, and recently quit
flying after he "found myself chasing after the airplane instead of flying it."

Nothing worse than having to deal with the effects of aging on something
you absolutely love to do. It's a shame. I remember when I had to take my
Father's car keys away after a series of fender-benders. He was devastated
at the loss of his independence, despite the fact that someone was always
there to drive him anywhere he wanted to go. It was heart breaking to do it, but
the alternative was worse. Even great pilots like Chuck Yeager reach a point
when it's time to curtail flying or fly less demanding types.

I'm glad he and his wife were no worse for the wear.

My regards,

Widewing (C.C. Jordan)
http://www.worldwar2aviation.com
http://www.cradleofaviation.org

** Report created 10/3/2003 Record 3 **

IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 28310 Make/Model: T6 Description: T-6, AT-6, BC-1,
SNJ, TEXAN, HARVARD
Date: 10/02/2003 Time: 1930
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: Minor Mid Air: N
Missing: N
Damage: Unknown

LOCATION
City: CLAYTON State: GA Country: US

DESCRIPTION
AFTER LANDING AT HEAVEN'S LANDING (PVT), THE ACFT RAN OFF THE RUNWAY.
CLAYTON, GA

INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 1 Unk:
# Pass: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 1 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: RELAYED AS SEVERE CLEAR

OTHER DATA
Activity: Pleasure Phase: Landing Operation: General
Aviation
Departed: GA62 Dep Date: Dep. Time:
Destination: UNKN Flt Plan: NONE Wx Briefing: N
Last Radio Cont: NONE Last Clearance: NONE
FAA FSDO: COLLEGE PARK, GA (SO11) Entry date: 10/03/2003

FMI: www.heavenslanding.net, www.aviationautographs.com


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Yes, it was a T-6. The accident report is shown in the Aero-News
story:

http://tinyurl.com/pot6

or:


http://www.aero-news.net/news/genav....ecde&Dynamic=1


all the best -- Dan Ford
email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

Victoria? I thought his wife's name was Glennis ...


Glennis died many years ago.

On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 15:28:16 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:

If it WAS a T6, as you already know I'm sure, the ole' Tex can bite you in
the butt in an instant if you get distracted by ANYTHING at all during the
rollout after landing. It will be interesting to find out exactly where
during the rollout this occurred. My bet would be on the low end of the
speed bleed as the airplane was slowing down after touchdown. There's a
"point" during the rollout in a T6 where the rudder goes south on you and
you damn well better be ready with some fast feet if the wind is blowing
across the runway !!

I'm sure you have more time in the SNJ than I have, but ever since I
went through Navy basic in one, I've thought of it as a pretty docile
airplane.

Kids who had never been in an airplane were soloing it in about 12
hours, so it couldn't have been very difficult to fly or land; and if
there were any groundloops while I was there, there were so few of
them I have no memory of them.

Perhaps it was because we learned to three-point it. In fact, our
instructors were happiest if we "one-pointed" it, with the tail wheel
hitting first.

vince norris

Glennis was also his ex-wife when she died, IIRC.

"vincent p. norris" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 15:28:16 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:

If it WAS a T6, as you already know I'm sure, the ole' Tex can bite you
in
the butt in an instant if you get distracted by ANYTHING at all during
the
rollout after landing. It will be interesting to find out exactly where
during the rollout this occurred. My bet would be on the low end of the
speed bleed as the airplane was slowing down after touchdown. There's a
"point" during the rollout in a T6 where the rudder goes south on you and
you damn well better be ready with some fast feet if the wind is blowing
across the runway !!

I'm sure you have more time in the SNJ than I have, but ever since I
went through Navy basic in one, I've thought of it as a pretty docile
airplane.

Kids who had never been in an airplane were soloing it in about 12
hours, so it couldn't have been very difficult to fly or land; and if
there were any groundloops while I was there, there were so few of
them I have no memory of them.

Perhaps it was because we learned to three-point it. In fact, our
instructors were happiest if we "one-pointed" it, with the tail wheel
hitting first.

vince norris

I would respectfully disagree with you on this assessment of the T6.
Although it's true that any competent pilot flying this airplane on a steady
basis should be able to handle it with no particular problems; and it's not
a particularly difficult airplane to fly; the aircraft itself was designed
to require an "extra" amount of attention from it's pilots in preparation
for transition into higher performance singles. Part of this "extra
attention" comes in the form of being able to handle an extremely narrow
gear spread on the ground; coupled with a fairly long arm fuselage going
back to the tailwheel. I've given about 700 hours of dual in T6's. I've seen
this airplane bite more than one pilot with what I would call "ample"
abilities. :-))))
The problem occurs in roll out as the speed bleeds down past rudder
effectiveness when a sizable crosswind component is present. This in itself
isn't a particular problem if the pilot is literally "on his toes" :-) but
can easily be the cause of the airplane getting ahead of you in swerve if
you get caught napping. If this happens, you can have a real handful of
airplane REAL FAST!!!!
In fact, the inherent trait of the T6 to get ahead of an unwary pilot on
landing in these conditions was great enough that we paid even greater
attention to it on checkouts than the 51 on landing; where the 51's wide
gear spread contributed to much greater straight ahead tracking. In our
business we had a motto. If you could handle the T6 from the back seat on
landing on a narrow hard surfaced runway, you should be a breeze in the
Mustang.
I believe with my experience as a checkout pilot in this airplane that I
could make a very good case for the argument that postulates that the good
safety record you are referring to for the T6 can be directly tied to a
superior checkout program in this airplane, given by VERY good instructors.
Remember, even back in the old days, either in the Navy with the SNJ or the
AirForce with the T6.....you didn't touch a T6 until you had gotten passed
primary and they felt you could handle the airplane. Also remember that when
you got there, although you had passed primary ok, you were just BEGINNING
with the AT6. That's why thay call the airplane th AT6!
AT standing for "Advanced Trainer" :-))
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt

Glennis was also his ex-wife when she died, IIRC.

Think you might want to check your facts. Glennis passed awy in December 1990
from cancer and she was not an ex.

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message hlink.net...
"vincent p. norris" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 15:28:16 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:

If it WAS a T6, as you already know I'm sure, the ole' Tex can bite you
in
the butt in an instant if you get distracted by ANYTHING at all during
the
rollout after landing. It will be interesting to find out exactly where
during the rollout this occurred. My bet would be on the low end of the
speed bleed as the airplane was slowing down after touchdown. There's a
"point" during the rollout in a T6 where the rudder goes south on you and
you damn well better be ready with some fast feet if the wind is blowing
across the runway !!

I'm sure you have more time in the SNJ than I have, but ever since I
went through Navy basic in one, I've thought of it as a pretty docile
airplane.

Kids who had never been in an airplane were soloing it in about 12
hours, so it couldn't have been very difficult to fly or land; and if
there were any groundloops while I was there, there were so few of
them I have no memory of them.

Perhaps it was because we learned to three-point it. In fact, our
instructors were happiest if we "one-pointed" it, with the tail wheel
hitting first.

vince norris

I would respectfully disagree with you on this assessment of the T6.
Although it's true that any competent pilot flying this airplane on a steady
basis should be able to handle it with no particular problems; and it's not
a particularly difficult airplane to fly; the aircraft itself was designed
to require an "extra" amount of attention from it's pilots in preparation
for transition into higher performance singles. Part of this "extra
attention" comes in the form of being able to handle an extremely narrow
gear spread on the ground; coupled with a fairly long arm fuselage going
back to the tailwheel. I've given about 700 hours of dual in T6's. I've seen
this airplane bite more than one pilot with what I would call "ample"
abilities. :-))))
The problem occurs in roll out as the speed bleeds down past rudder
effectiveness when a sizable crosswind component is present. This in itself
isn't a particular problem if the pilot is literally "on his toes" :-) but
can easily be the cause of the airplane getting ahead of you in swerve if
you get caught napping. If this happens, you can have a real handful of
airplane REAL FAST!!!!
In fact, the inherent trait of the T6 to get ahead of an unwary pilot on
landing in these conditions was great enough that we paid even greater
attention to it on checkouts than the 51 on landing; where the 51's wide
gear spread contributed to much greater straight ahead tracking. In our
business we had a motto. If you could handle the T6 from the back seat on
landing on a narrow hard surfaced runway, you should be a breeze in the
Mustang.
I believe with my experience as a checkout pilot in this airplane that I
could make a very good case for the argument that postulates that the good
safety record you are referring to for the T6 can be directly tied to a
superior checkout program in this airplane, given by VERY good instructors.
Remember, even back in the old days, either in the Navy with the SNJ or the
AirForce with the T6.....you didn't touch a T6 until you had gotten passed
primary and they felt you could handle the airplane. Also remember that when
you got there, although you had passed primary ok, you were just BEGINNING
with the AT6. That's why thay call the airplane th AT6!
AT standing for "Advanced Trainer" :-))
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt

===========
I was in pilot training class 56U. We flew the T6 in primary after
about 14 hours in the PA-18. A lot of solo students joined the "garden
club" by losing directional control on the landing roll. The first
crash I ever saw was called a "rudder trim tab stall" in a T6. A
student let the torque, lack of trim, and lack of nose down control
get him on a go-around. He added power and his nose pitched up and
left into a stall. We were at a little dirt strip at Castroville, TX
standing about 50 yards from the crash. The plane was in bad shape,
the student was unhurt.

Gene Myers

I'm sure you have more time in the SNJ than I have, but ever since I
went through Navy basic in one, I've thought of it as a pretty docile
airplane.

Kids who had never been in an airplane were soloing it in about 12
hours, so it couldn't have been very difficult to fly or land; and if
there were any groundloops while I was there, there were so few of
them I have no memory of them.

Perhaps it was because we learned to three-point it. In fact, our
instructors were happiest if we "one-pointed" it, with the tail wheel
hitting first.

vince norris

I would respectfully disagree with you on this assessment of the T6.

And I must respectfully disagree with you.

You don't seem to have read my posting very carefully.

an extremely narrow gear spread on the ground;

I don't see how you can call it an "extremely narrow gear spread." It
may have been narrower than that of a P-51, P-47 or SB2C, but was
hardly "extremely narrow." The Bf 109 gear was "extremely narrow."

The problem occurs in roll out as the speed bleeds down past rudder
effectiveness

You seem to be talking about wheel landings. I said we learned to
land with the tail wheel solidly on the ground, and keep it there.

Remember, even back in the old days, either in the Navy with the SNJ or the
AirForce with the T6.....you didn't touch a T6 until you had gotten passed
primary and they felt you could handle the airplane.

Again, you don't seem to have read my posting. I said that kids WHO
HAD NEVER BEEN IN AN AIRPLANE were soloing the SNJ in about 12 hours.

I suspect that something quite unusual caused Yeager's accident.
Perhaps a blown tire or a bad brake.

vince norris

"vincent p. norris" wrote in message
...
I'm sure you have more time in the SNJ than I have, but ever since I
went through Navy basic in one, I've thought of it as a pretty docile
airplane.

Kids who had never been in an airplane were soloing it in about 12
hours, so it couldn't have been very difficult to fly or land; and if
there were any groundloops while I was there, there were so few of
them I have no memory of them.

Perhaps it was because we learned to three-point it. In fact, our
instructors were happiest if we "one-pointed" it, with the tail wheel
hitting first.

vince norris

I would respectfully disagree with you on this assessment of the T6.

And I must respectfully disagree with you.

You don't seem to have read my posting very carefully.

an extremely narrow gear spread on the ground;

I don't see how you can call it an "extremely narrow gear spread." It
may have been narrower than that of a P-51, P-47 or SB2C, but was
hardly "extremely narrow." The Bf 109 gear was "extremely narrow."

The problem occurs in roll out as the speed bleeds down past rudder
effectiveness

You seem to be talking about wheel landings. I said we learned to
land with the tail wheel solidly on the ground, and keep it there.

Remember, even back in the old days, either in the Navy with the SNJ or
the
AirForce with the T6.....you didn't touch a T6 until you had gotten
passed
primary and they felt you could handle the airplane.

Again, you don't seem to have read my posting. I said that kids WHO
HAD NEVER BEEN IN AN AIRPLANE were soloing the SNJ in about 12 hours.

I suspect that something quite unusual caused Yeager's accident.
Perhaps a blown tire or a bad brake.

vince norris

Please feel free to disagree with me at any time. It's not a contest unless
you make it one.
I'll stand however with my opinion on the T6 if you don't mind, and allow
you your opinion whatever that might be.

All the best to you,
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt