Back to square one on buying an Arrow

wrote:
Is it only me, or does anybody realize that a Grumman Tiger that is
tuned well
and in good condition will blow the doors off an ARROW! Try one out
and then
decide if you really want to pay for the annuals for the retractable
every year.
Thanks Bill but we're interested in a complex as two of us want to move
onto a commercial rating in the future. Thus, an Arrow nicely fits the
mission profile. Insurance is much more reasonable than on a higher
performance complex. If I was going to stop at an instrument rating,
sure, anything down and welded would be a good choice. I've heard nice
things about the Tiger and would love to fly one someday.

--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student-Arrow Buying Student

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

I used to have a Tiger and also have a couple hundred hours
in Arrows. And a Tiger will not blow the doors off an Arrow. The
numbers are real close for both planes. In fact .. while considering
Arrows and Tigers .. I chose a Tiger. With the Tiger you have virtually
the same numbers without the maintenance of folding wheels and
constant speed prop. And they're WAY more fun to fly.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Another Arrow deal gone south

Is it only me, or does anybody realize that a Grumman Tiger that is
tuned well
and in good condition will blow the doors off an ARROW! Try one out
and then
decide if you really want to pay for the annuals for the retractable
every year.
I am not selling mine right now so this is not a promo, just a
suggestion to
compare. You might just be convinced.

Bill Oparowski
N10SX

Nathan Young wrote:

From your post history, I believe you live in CA.

Yep, in the Sacramento area.

Of course, I just checked aso.com, and they did not list a single
Arrow in California or the W. Coast. - so maybe that's the problem,
they have all migrated East :-)
I think a bunch of them must have been transplanted to the Carolinas.
I've lost count of how many I see in NC/SC. Something about going coast
to coast to buy a plane though. I'd love the return flight to bring the
bird home. Heck, I could knock out my instrument x-c flight.

We're looking here in CA and there are some but nothing worth
mentioning. Oh, sure there's an "airshow ready" Arrow in Auburn that we
made an offer on (that was the one that was flatly rejected, no counter
from the seller). The owner refuses to deal off his $73.5K asking price
so we said "see ya". So, we're 0 for 2 right now. No big deal, we'll
hit one out of the park sometime in the future.

--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student-Arrow Buying Student

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 09:38:51 -0800, Jack Allison
wrote:

Nathan Young wrote:

From your post history, I believe you live in CA.

Yep, in the Sacramento area.

Of course, I just checked aso.com, and they did not list a single
Arrow in California or the W. Coast. - so maybe that's the problem,
they have all migrated East :-)
I think a bunch of them must have been transplanted to the Carolinas.
I've lost count of how many I see in NC/SC. Something about going coast
to coast to buy a plane though. I'd love the return flight to bring the
bird home. Heck, I could knock out my instrument x-c flight.

We're looking here in CA and there are some but nothing worth
mentioning. Oh, sure there's an "airshow ready" Arrow in Auburn that we
made an offer on (that was the one that was flatly rejected, no counter
from the seller). The owner refuses to deal off his $73.5K asking price
so we said "see ya". So, we're 0 for 2 right now. No big deal, we'll
hit one out of the park sometime in the future.

As several other posters alluded - sometimes the best deals are local
ones that are not well advertised. Talk to the area mechanics and
network with other pilots. You may be surprised what you find...

Good luck in your search. As a side note, if you purchase the plane
a long distance from CA, please take caution on the return flight.
Mechanical failures are common after maintenance (ie the prebuy) and
especially so in this case as you do not know the entire history of
the plane. I would make several local area flights before setting off
on the long distance XC. I would fly as high as practical, and I
would not fly in IMC. Do not trust the book oil burn or fuel burn
numbers until you've put a lot of hours into the plane and know that
they are accurate.

One other prebuy item. Most A&Ps do not exercise the avionics for the
prebuy. They will focus on the airframe and powerplant. During your
test flights, take the time to track near and distant VORs, make sure
the indicator error is reasonable. If equipped with DME make sure it
can pick up near/distant stations. . Fly a practice ILS, and note
if the crossing heights at the OM are accurate. Verify the flags on
the OBS indicator are working. Make sure the market beacons operate
correctly.

-Nathan

Jack Allison writes:

We're looking here in CA and there are some but nothing worth
mentioning.

If you haven't already, mention to mechanics the kind of plane that
you're looking for. They are aware of owners who might be on the brink
of listing their plane, etc.

I found my current plane, a 1973 Cessna 182P, that way.

-jav

Jack Allison wrote:

We're looking here in CA and there are some but nothing worth
mentioning.
snip

The search for a good one can take a long time. My 1st plane took 3
months, and I found it by word of mouth. A friend at the aiport had
seen the guy put a "for sale" sign in the window and called me within
the hour. The second one I found sitting on a broker's ramp when I
went to go look at another plane. It had just arrived and had not yet
been advertised. I didn't go for the original plane, but snapped up
the new arrival before anyone else knew it was available.

Recently I've seen a fairly novel approach. Someone who was looking
for a good Cherokee 180 got the FAA owners list and sent postcards to
the owners. He also requested that if the recipient knew of anyone
that had a 180 for sale, to please pass on the contact info. I called
the guy because I knew of one for sale in a neighboring state. He'd
already found one, but shared his search method with me. To keep costs
down, he started off by sending cards to 180 owners in his home state.
Next he sent them to owners in states bordering his. The third mailing
expanded the search radius by one more state. He got lucky on the
third mailing.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

FAA owners list and sent postcards to
the owners.

I did something similar. I downloaded the list, sorted it for the make,
model, model year, and engine, then sorted it by owners location.
Then I sorted it by owners name. I chose owners who's medicals had expired
and owners who had registered the plane more than 5 years ago. My thinking
was to find somebody who could no longer fly but who had owned the plane for
5 years or more.
I started calling owners in Wisconsin and Michigan that owned Aztecs.
My first 3 cold calls yielded 3 Aztecs and 2 Apaches who's owners had not
advertised the planes but were thinking of selling.
One Aztec turned up only 60 miles from home, 80 year old owner, lost his
medical, but the plane hadn't flown in 9 years.

Jim

Hmmm, this is getting interesting. Nice ideas Jim & John. I'm just now
downloading the database (after finally finding it on the FAA
website...took some searching). If anyone is interested, the database
is he http://registry.faa.gov/ardata.asp According to Mozilla's
download manager, I have to wait another 10 minutes for it to finish.

I'm so tired of looking at TAP, ASO, Controller, etc. A little data
mangling exercise seems like a nice diversion. Many thanks and I'll
keep you guys posted.


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student-Arrow Buying Student

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

On 9 Mar 2005 12:20:06 -0800, "
wrote:

Recently I've seen a fairly novel approach. Someone who was looking
for a good Cherokee 180 got the FAA owners list and sent postcards to
the owners. He also requested that if the recipient knew of anyone
that had a 180 for sale, to please pass on the contact info. I called
the guy because I knew of one for sale in a neighboring state. He'd
already found one, but shared his search method with me. To keep costs
down, he started off by sending cards to 180 owners in his home state.
Next he sent them to owners in states bordering his. The third mailing
expanded the search radius by one more state. He got lucky on the
third mailing.


Interesting technique. I get a lot of similarly worded postcards from
brokers though, so I usually just pitch them.

Nathan Young wrote:

Interesting technique. I get a lot of similarly worded postcards
from
brokers though, so I usually just pitch them.

So do I. The individual who sent the postcards must have realized
this too. In bold letters on the top of the card it said, "I am not a
Broker!". Then it went on to explain that he was an individual buyer
looking for a good airplane.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)