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#11
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#12
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"Morgans" wrote in message
... "AES" wrote As a follow-on to recent discussions of the shuttle or manned space exploration in several threads on these two groups, an illustration of one of NASA's current concepts for future space exploration vehicles is temporarily available at http://www.stanford.edu/~siegman/shuttle_replacement.gif Bring back the Saturn 5-B! Someone still has the drawings around, I'll bet! -- Jim in NC I think I remember reading somewhere that if they wanted to bring back the Saturn VB, it would take them almost as long to gather back up all the drawings and schematics as it did to develop the rocket in the first place. Seems stuff is scattered all to hell and back...throughout NASA, at museums, etc... Jay B |
#13
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nooneimportant wrote: Ben, my main point, that you apparently missed, is that NASA intends to go back to the methods of 40 years ago. But with the disaster that has been the shuttle program, I guess this inclination is understandable. -- Cliff I kind of agree... seems like a capsule program is a step backward... but then again, isn't it cheaper to build a brand new Saturn V rocket and capsul for every launch, then it is to refit a "re-usable" shuttle (just pulling that out outa my rear, but i seem to recall somewhere seeing that building a SatV in todays dollars is still cheaper than refitting a shuttle)? I still don't see why a capsule system can't be "re-usable" boosters seperate, deploy chutes and land, lower stages sep and land, upper stages will likely be lost, but crew capsul can be reused..... The real downside i see to that particular system is the need for two vehicles at each launch... cargo and crew, why not beef up the cargo launch system, and throw the crew cap on top of it, ship them individually as needed to support the ISS with crew/supplies. Frankly I think the ideal way to go would be a single stage to space aircraft, that can land, get fuel/supplies, and be back in space within a few days, but i don't see that anytime soon. If the cost prevents developing a cheap cargo lifter then the space program will continue to be a disaster. |
#15
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mrtravel wrote:
[ about landing on land instead of water ] The Russians have been doing it for almost 50 years, I doubt the US has learned the economics of this yet. Another thing about the Russians... thank goodness they built that Progress automated supply rocket. With all the shuttle delays the past few years, their unmanned device has kept the ISS going. So unmanned is handy sometimes. OTOH, man is adventurous, and I believe we need the knowledge gained by sending people into space. Think of it this way: would millions of people around the world have watched as closely back in 1969, if it were just a robot setting foot on the moon? No way. The whole point was sending men to the moon and bringing them back again safely. I cannot imagine not exploring space at least partly in person. That'd be like all of us still sitting in Europe while robots roamed North America since 1492. Cheers, Kev |
#16
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That's not entirely accurate. They have all the plans and diagrams
archived centrally, and there are many copies. The problem is that many of the components were built by suppliers that no longer exist. It would take a long time to re-engineer the parts, re-certify them and so on. Need a Framson Mk VI dipolar capacimator in the twenty one volt variety? Whoops! Nobody makes equivalent stuff anymore, and Framson went out of business in the 70s. Because of millions of little examples like this, there would need to be a substantial re-engineering effort to re-invent thousands of tiny wheels, so the logic is that it's better to build a heavy lift system with the skills and parts we have now. Hence, the Shuttle Derived Launch Vehicles, one of which is a heavy lifter that would throw Saturn V class payloads. Read more he http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SDLV Ben Hallert PP-ASEL |
#17
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"Frank F. Matthews" writ gravenly.... If the cost prevents developing a cheap cargo lifter then the space program will continue to be a disaster. No, if the Congressional pork barrels weren't so deep (and so many) and the "required " expenditures of the USG so high more funds would be available. There's no making things "cheaper", but the priorities involved in allocating the funds necessary. No Congressman would allow NASA's needs to get in the way of a highway or a subway in his/her district. We've dithered along now for 20 years spending money on a dead-end "bridge" program, using all available funds to kerep the current program alive, subsidize Mir's operations (another "PR in the sky" effort for the Russians and for us. |
#18
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In article ,
"Frank F. Matthews" wrote: If the cost prevents developing a cheap cargo lifter then the space program will continue to be a disaster. If costs prevent developing a cheap cargo lifter, then people will just have to figure out the benefit of space travel. -- Bob Noel no one likes an educated mule |
#19
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"Ben Hallert" wrote Hence, the Shuttle Derived Launch Vehicles, one of which is a heavy lifter that would throw Saturn V class payloads. Read more he http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SDLV Seems a lot of engineering would have to be done to the shuttle's main fuel tank, to use it as a heavy lifter. The thrust of the shuttle engines are applied to the mounts on the side of the tank, and the proposed lifter has them on the bottom end of the tank. Also, you would need to stage, and get rid of the main tank, (my guess, not anything I read) so you would need some more engines on the second stage, and more tankage, right? I do like the idea, but I'm not so sure it would not be easier to start with a clean piece of paper, except for a few things like engines, and solid boosters. Come to think of it, the solid boosters have had their problems too, right? -- Jim in NC |
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