Q: C-152 spin characteristics

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in
news
gatt wrote:
There should be NO "cockpit object" in the airplane with you in an
aircraft you have prepared properly for giving dual in spins,ready
to "fall under the rudder pedal or something".

Yeah, good point. I should mention "securing the cockpit for
aerobatic maneuvers" in the lesson plan/checklist.


I watched a video once of some Blue Angels practicing when a team
member had planted a sandwich in the cockpit of one of the other
planes. The pilot executed a roll and you could plainly see the
sandwich floating across the cockpit. Pretty funny but I don't think
I'd want that happening to me while performing formation aerobatics.


It's a PITA. Coins, nutas and bolts, dirt from the carpets and your shoes.
There's a lot to be said for ding them in open cockpit airplanes, You can
clean them out first roll anyway!

Bertie

On Jan 25, 11:03 am, "gatt" wrote:
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
You might as well start thinking like a GOOD instructor right now :-)

There should be NO "cockpit object" in the airplane with you in an
aircraft you have prepared properly for giving dual in spins,ready to
"fall under the rudder pedal or something".

Yeah, good point. I should mention "securing the cockpit for aerobatic
maneuvers" in the lesson plan/checklist.

Thanks, Dudley!

-c

Or *any* situation where positive/zero/negative G transitions are
possible. Watching maps, gloves, cushions, dead insects, etc.,
floating around the cockpit momentarily is certainly entertaining, but
getting an eye full of grit when you go positive on recovery is a real
PITA. Bin there, dun that.

I recommend Kershner's instructor and aerobatic texts. Bill
Kershner probably did more spins in a C 150 teach than
anybody else.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"Barry" wrote in message
. ..
| Getting ready to do spins for CFI training, which means
not only do I get to
| perform them, I have to delivery a ground lesson on them
first as well, so
| I'm gathering all the data I can find.
|
| Information I have says that in a developed spin most
light airplanes make a
| complete turn and lose 500' about every 3 seconds.
|
| Does anybody have information to the contrary? I haven't
done spins since
| 1990 so I don't remember the numbers exactly.
|
| Check the POH for the plane you're using. My POH for a
1980 C152 suggests
| allowing 1000 feet for one turn, 2000 feet for six turns,
and planning to
| recover above 4000 AGL. For other planes that are not
certified for spins, I
| agree with Jim that you shouldn't emphasize specific spin
characteristics.
|
| I think a great resource for spin instruction is the
"Understanding Spins"
| video made by Barry Schiff for the "Wonderful World of
Flying" series. I show
| this to student pilots and CFI candidates before doing
spin avoidance or spin
| lessons. I bought it a long time ago from Sporty's in VHS
as "Volume 1" of
| the "Proficient Flying" series, but it looks like now only
the full set of 3
| DVDs is available:
|
|
http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl....ID=7313&DID=19
|
| Barry
|
|

Spins in a 152 are rather benign. Spinning left is ok, but spinning to
the right you have to old in the spin or she will pop out.

I could easily do 5 spins from 5,000' at night without in problems.
There fun and everyone should experience spins and to know what to do to
recover.

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message

I recommend Kershner's instructor and aerobatic texts. Bill
Kershner probably did more spins in a C 150 teach than
anybody else.

I just read his spin chapter this weekend. I guess I know everything I
need to know about spins for now, but, yeow, that would be a lot of
information to throw at a PPL student before spin training. Useful
illustrations, though. 'I only read them-ar books fer the pitchers.'


-c

"gatt" wrote in message
...

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message

I recommend Kershner's instructor and aerobatic texts. Bill
Kershner probably did more spins in a C 150 teach than
anybody else.

I just read his spin chapter this weekend. I guess I know everything I
need to know about spins for now, but, yeow, that would be a lot of
information to throw at a PPL student before spin training. Useful
illustrations, though. 'I only read them-ar books fer the pitchers.'


-c

I'm sorry to step back in and respond so late, but there is a point that
needs a little emphasis.

At the time that I demanded a little spin training, I had already read
"Stick and Rudder" plus a lot of Kershner's work. Even so, that first spin
entry seemed to take a couple of milliseconds--after which the ground seemed
to rotate so fast that I still am not sure which direction we were turning!
The point being that preparation on the ground is essential for
understanding; but hopelessly incomplete.

However, after a couple of more spins, the entry seemed quite lazy and the
rotation still was faster than a Merry-Go-Round; but certainly not exciting.
After a couple of spins after that, things had slowed down so much that
there were multiple opportunities to recover in the first 90 degrees--some
of them with less than 50 feet of altitude loss and very little change of
direction.

As discussed in another thread, I failed to take the spin training to the
next level--which is the entry from an accellerated stall. I have forgotten
exactly why, but vaguely recall that the instructor who was so confident in
teaching normal spins was not eager to have a student demonstrate
accellerated stalls--especially where that would lead to an accellerated
spin entry. To tell the truth, at the time, that seemed to be just a little
over the top to me as well; and absolutely no one that I knew advocated such
a thing. (As an aside, much as today, the FAA was on one of their big
safety pushes--and even some of the good ol' boys claimed that they never
flew any way other than "straight and level" when they were on the ground.)

The point of all this is that, when I return to flying, I will immediately
extend the stall and spin training into the accellerated entry area; because
that is where most of the stall-spin accidents really begin--and I fully
expect that things will seem to speed up again (quite radically) for the
first few times in each direction. After that, I will also do them
solo--because the airplane handles just a little differently when it has an
eccentric load.

Peter
Nearly as eccentric as the plane ;-)

"Peter Dohm" wrote in
:


"gatt" wrote in message
...

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message

I recommend Kershner's instructor and aerobatic texts. Bill
Kershner probably did more spins in a C 150 teach than
anybody else.

I just read his spin chapter this weekend. I guess I know
everything I need to know about spins for now, but, yeow, that would
be a lot of information to throw at a PPL student before spin
training. Useful illustrations, though. 'I only read them-ar books
fer the pitchers.'


-c

I'm sorry to step back in and respond so late, but there is a point
that needs a little emphasis.

At the time that I demanded a little spin training, I had already read
"Stick and Rudder" plus a lot of Kershner's work. Even so, that first
spin entry seemed to take a couple of milliseconds--after which the
ground seemed to rotate so fast that I still am not sure which
direction we were turning! The point being that preparation on the
ground is essential for understanding; but hopelessly incomplete.

However, after a couple of more spins, the entry seemed quite lazy and
the rotation still was faster than a Merry-Go-Round; but certainly not
exciting. After a couple of spins after that, things had slowed down
so much that there were multiple opportunities to recover in the first
90 degrees--some of them with less than 50 feet of altitude loss and
very little change of direction.

As discussed in another thread, I failed to take the spin training to
the next level--which is the entry from an accellerated stall. I have
forgotten exactly why, but vaguely recall that the instructor who was
so confident in teaching normal spins was not eager to have a student
demonstrate accellerated stalls--especially where that would lead to
an accellerated spin entry. To tell the truth, at the time, that
seemed to be just a little over the top to me as well; and absolutely
no one that I knew advocated such a thing. (As an aside, much as
today, the FAA was on one of their big safety pushes--and even some of
the good ol' boys claimed that they never flew any way other than
"straight and level" when they were on the ground.)

The point of all this is that, when I return to flying, I will
immediately extend the stall and spin training into the accellerated
entry area; because that is where most of the stall-spin accidents
really begin--and I fully expect that things will seem to speed up
again (quite radically) for the first few times in each direction.
After that, I will also do them solo--because the airplane handles
just a little differently when it has an eccentric load.



Well, I self taught the accelerated ones sometime shortly after getting
my private. They're no big deal, its the stall and entry itself that's
of interest , of course, as I'm sure you already know. the break is
usualy sharper and rotation begins with a bit more enrgy, depending on
how energetically you are manuevering when the stall occurs. Well worth
doing.
There are a number of points where a spin is likely during
aerobatics.Around the top of a loop, botched hammerhead and botched
immelman being three prime candidates. No biggy any of them and they can
be stopped before they start if you can learn to read the wing.


Bertie

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
.. .
"Peter Dohm" wrote in
:


"gatt" wrote in message
...

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message

I recommend Kershner's instructor and aerobatic texts. Bill
Kershner probably did more spins in a C 150 teach than
anybody else.

I just read his spin chapter this weekend. I guess I know
everything I need to know about spins for now, but, yeow, that would
be a lot of information to throw at a PPL student before spin
training. Useful illustrations, though. 'I only read them-ar books
fer the pitchers.'


-c

I'm sorry to step back in and respond so late, but there is a point
that needs a little emphasis.

At the time that I demanded a little spin training, I had already read
"Stick and Rudder" plus a lot of Kershner's work. Even so, that first
spin entry seemed to take a couple of milliseconds--after which the
ground seemed to rotate so fast that I still am not sure which
direction we were turning! The point being that preparation on the
ground is essential for understanding; but hopelessly incomplete.

However, after a couple of more spins, the entry seemed quite lazy and
the rotation still was faster than a Merry-Go-Round; but certainly not
exciting. After a couple of spins after that, things had slowed down
so much that there were multiple opportunities to recover in the first
90 degrees--some of them with less than 50 feet of altitude loss and
very little change of direction.

As discussed in another thread, I failed to take the spin training to
the next level--which is the entry from an accellerated stall. I have
forgotten exactly why, but vaguely recall that the instructor who was
so confident in teaching normal spins was not eager to have a student
demonstrate accellerated stalls--especially where that would lead to
an accellerated spin entry. To tell the truth, at the time, that
seemed to be just a little over the top to me as well; and absolutely
no one that I knew advocated such a thing. (As an aside, much as
today, the FAA was on one of their big safety pushes--and even some of
the good ol' boys claimed that they never flew any way other than
"straight and level" when they were on the ground.)

The point of all this is that, when I return to flying, I will
immediately extend the stall and spin training into the accellerated
entry area; because that is where most of the stall-spin accidents
really begin--and I fully expect that things will seem to speed up
again (quite radically) for the first few times in each direction.
After that, I will also do them solo--because the airplane handles
just a little differently when it has an eccentric load.



Well, I self taught the accelerated ones sometime shortly after getting
my private. They're no big deal, its the stall and entry itself that's
of interest , of course, as I'm sure you already know. the break is
usualy sharper and rotation begins with a bit more enrgy, depending on
how energetically you are manuevering when the stall occurs. Well worth
doing.
There are a number of points where a spin is likely during
aerobatics.Around the top of a loop, botched hammerhead and botched
immelman being three prime candidates. No biggy any of them and they can
be stopped before they start if you can learn to read the wing.


Bertie



That's pretty much what I expect, and well worth practicing ASAP at a safe
altitude.

Peter