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Pawnee air-oil bear strut pressure



 
 
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  #11  
Old March 6th 18, 07:31 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Larry Ruggiero
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Posts: 33
Default Pawnee air-oil gear strut pressure

More than the recommended 575psi? Knowing that these struts are back-asswards in function, maybe I shouldn't be surprised. The hydraulic side of it isn't compressible but the air is. Might it also mean some of the hydro has to come out as well? Since the IA and I had a big disagreement about its towhook, and since it was suggested I take our business elsewhere, I ain't going back. Second annual in a row where he left me with more crap to deal with than it had when dropped off, and all I get is shoulder shrugs and BS about it being an old airplane when I complain. Yet his business flourishes. ****es me off...

Anyhow, wish I had looked more closely at it when he had it torn apart on the bench so I could wrap my head around its function. The service manual's really no help.

Larry
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  #12  
Old March 6th 18, 09:27 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)
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Posts: 1,380
Default Pawnee air-oil bear strut pressure

That may be worthwhile on this and other models (no, I'm not a A&P....).
I believe, due to other gear failures on a Cub and a Pawnee, the routine is to just replace some major gear bolts every few years.
Can't really check them every day, history has shown they wear out over time. When they wear out, broken bolt, then gear collapse follows right after.
On both of our normal towplanes, we have droop tips. This means we get a "wee bit more clearance" before a prop strike.
No, not perfect.
Yes, may be quite a bit cheaper.
  #13  
Old March 7th 18, 03:32 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 1
Default Pawnee air-oil bear strut pressure

On Tuesday, March 6, 2018 at 11:46:11 AM UTC-7, Dan Daly wrote:
On Tuesday, March 6, 2018 at 10:55:02 AM UTC-5, Roy B. wrote:
On the subject of Pawnee landing gear - be very careful of the Hutch conversion 2 piece slab type gear that is fixed with 3 vertical bolts. If the centermost bolt fails (as it can from vibration over the years) the gear collapses, the prop strikes the ground, and you have a totaled plane from a situation that really can't be detected/inspected before the failure. We lost a towplane that way in a very light landing on grass when the bolt snapped.
The bungee system has some redundancy and the Cessna one piece gear slab is good - but the 2 piece Hutch gear is a problem.
ROY


The PA-25 SB 25/32/04 dated 01/03/2008 describes a Main Landing Gear Shock Absorption System modification adding a cable to restrict lateral movement of the landing gear leg should a piece of the Hydrasorb shock absorber crack and fail (which they do). We had a Pawnee mod'd (bungee gear system) and had the failure of one support on landing. The down wingtip didn't touch, and neither did the prop. Laviasa had a kit (KIT LA-K-005) with support fittings, a security cable, and longer bolts. Money well spent. I have a soft copy of the SB (2 pages text, 3 pages drawings) if anyone wants one. Also pics of the cable having done its job, a closeup of the installation, and a pic of an unluckier Pawnee without the mod kit.

For light reading, I attach a link to a Canadian Civil Aviation Safety Alert showing the fatigue cracking of the part. https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviati...11-02-1344.htm

Dan


Dan, thanks for sharing this information. I'd be very interested in the LAVIASA Service Bulletin kit information. LAVIASA has been very difficult to get ahold of. How can I get in touch?

And for those operating Piper PA-18 Supercubs, F. Atlee Dodge has an STC'd mail landing gear safety cable kit, which is very widely used by "off field" operators, e.g., in Alaska, viz: http://www.fadodge.com/safety-cables-for-mlg-std/

I've been of the opinion that the MLG bolts should be changed out, and attach points closely inspected based on number of landing cycles, rather than just hours, especially for tow operations.

Thanks. Curt
  #14  
Old March 7th 18, 03:40 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Daly[_2_]
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Posts: 702
Default Pawnee air-oil bear strut pressure

On Wednesday, March 7, 2018 at 10:32:59 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tuesday, March 6, 2018 at 11:46:11 AM UTC-7, Dan Daly wrote:
On Tuesday, March 6, 2018 at 10:55:02 AM UTC-5, Roy B. wrote:
On the subject of Pawnee landing gear - be very careful of the Hutch conversion 2 piece slab type gear that is fixed with 3 vertical bolts. If the centermost bolt fails (as it can from vibration over the years) the gear collapses, the prop strikes the ground, and you have a totaled plane from a situation that really can't be detected/inspected before the failure. We lost a towplane that way in a very light landing on grass when the bolt snapped.
The bungee system has some redundancy and the Cessna one piece gear slab is good - but the 2 piece Hutch gear is a problem.
ROY


The PA-25 SB 25/32/04 dated 01/03/2008 describes a Main Landing Gear Shock Absorption System modification adding a cable to restrict lateral movement of the landing gear leg should a piece of the Hydrasorb shock absorber crack and fail (which they do). We had a Pawnee mod'd (bungee gear system) and had the failure of one support on landing. The down wingtip didn't touch, and neither did the prop. Laviasa had a kit (KIT LA-K-005) with support fittings, a security cable, and longer bolts. Money well spent. I have a soft copy of the SB (2 pages text, 3 pages drawings) if anyone wants one. Also pics of the cable having done its job, a closeup of the installation, and a pic of an unluckier Pawnee without the mod kit.

For light reading, I attach a link to a Canadian Civil Aviation Safety Alert showing the fatigue cracking of the part. https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviati...11-02-1344.htm

Dan


Dan, thanks for sharing this information. I'd be very interested in the LAVIASA Service Bulletin kit information. LAVIASA has been very difficult to get ahold of. How can I get in touch?

And for those operating Piper PA-18 Supercubs, F. Atlee Dodge has an STC'd mail landing gear safety cable kit, which is very widely used by "off field" operators, e.g., in Alaska, viz: http://www.fadodge.com/safety-cables-for-mlg-std/

I've been of the opinion that the MLG bolts should be changed out, and attach points closely inspected based on number of landing cycles, rather than just hours, especially for tow operations.

Thanks. Curt


Laviasa is out of business. I'll send the SB etc. The drawings should allow you to re-create it; perhaps Johnson aircraft might be able to help. http://www.johnstonaircraft.com/

Dan
  #15  
Old March 7th 18, 04:01 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Daly[_2_]
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Posts: 702
Default Pawnee air-oil bear strut pressure

On Wednesday, March 7, 2018 at 10:41:01 AM UTC-5, Dan Daly wrote:
On Wednesday, March 7, 2018 at 10:32:59 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tuesday, March 6, 2018 at 11:46:11 AM UTC-7, Dan Daly wrote:
On Tuesday, March 6, 2018 at 10:55:02 AM UTC-5, Roy B. wrote:
On the subject of Pawnee landing gear - be very careful of the Hutch conversion 2 piece slab type gear that is fixed with 3 vertical bolts. If the centermost bolt fails (as it can from vibration over the years) the gear collapses, the prop strikes the ground, and you have a totaled plane from a situation that really can't be detected/inspected before the failure. We lost a towplane that way in a very light landing on grass when the bolt snapped.
The bungee system has some redundancy and the Cessna one piece gear slab is good - but the 2 piece Hutch gear is a problem.
ROY

The PA-25 SB 25/32/04 dated 01/03/2008 describes a Main Landing Gear Shock Absorption System modification adding a cable to restrict lateral movement of the landing gear leg should a piece of the Hydrasorb shock absorber crack and fail (which they do). We had a Pawnee mod'd (bungee gear system) and had the failure of one support on landing. The down wingtip didn't touch, and neither did the prop. Laviasa had a kit (KIT LA-K-005) with support fittings, a security cable, and longer bolts. Money well spent. I have a soft copy of the SB (2 pages text, 3 pages drawings) if anyone wants one. Also pics of the cable having done its job, a closeup of the installation, and a pic of an unluckier Pawnee without the mod kit.

For light reading, I attach a link to a Canadian Civil Aviation Safety Alert showing the fatigue cracking of the part. https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviati...11-02-1344.htm

Dan


Dan, thanks for sharing this information. I'd be very interested in the LAVIASA Service Bulletin kit information. LAVIASA has been very difficult to get ahold of. How can I get in touch?

And for those operating Piper PA-18 Supercubs, F. Atlee Dodge has an STC'd mail landing gear safety cable kit, which is very widely used by "off field" operators, e.g., in Alaska, viz: http://www.fadodge.com/safety-cables-for-mlg-std/

I've been of the opinion that the MLG bolts should be changed out, and attach points closely inspected based on number of landing cycles, rather than just hours, especially for tow operations.

Thanks. Curt


Laviasa is out of business. I'll send the SB etc. The drawings should allow you to re-create it; perhaps Johnson aircraft might be able to help. http://www.johnstonaircraft.com/

Dan


Sent to UH and Curt. Big (hi def scan, just under 8 MB) so if it doesn't get there let me know please.

I see Lavia Argentina have a website https://laviaargentina.com/ ; I used google translate and it seems to be active. "We have for immediate delivery all spare parts for your PA-25, as well as the necessary technical documentation for the operation or repair."
  #16  
Old March 7th 21, 08:41 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
barrflyr
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Posts: 2
Default Pawnee air-oil bear strut pressure

On Tuesday, March 6, 2018 at 12:46:11 PM UTC-6, Dan Daly wrote:
On Tuesday, March 6, 2018 at 10:55:02 AM UTC-5, Roy B. wrote:
On the subject of Pawnee landing gear - be very careful of the Hutch conversion 2 piece slab type gear that is fixed with 3 vertical bolts. If the centermost bolt fails (as it can from vibration over the years) the gear collapses, the prop strikes the ground, and you have a totaled plane from a situation that really can't be detected/inspected before the failure. We lost a towplane that way in a very light landing on grass when the bolt snapped.
The bungee system has some redundancy and the Cessna one piece gear slab is good - but the 2 piece Hutch gear is a problem.
ROY

The PA-25 SB 25/32/04 dated 01/03/2008 describes a Main Landing Gear Shock Absorption System modification adding a cable to restrict lateral movement of the landing gear leg should a piece of the Hydrasorb shock absorber crack and fail (which they do). We had a Pawnee mod'd (bungee gear system) and had the failure of one support on landing. The down wingtip didn't touch, and neither did the prop. Laviasa had a kit (KIT LA-K-005) with support fittings, a security cable, and longer bolts. Money well spent. I have a soft copy of the SB (2 pages text, 3 pages drawings) if anyone wants one. Also pics of the cable having done its job, a closeup of the installation, and a pic of an unluckier Pawnee without the mod kit.

For light reading, I attach a link to a Canadian Civil Aviation Safety Alert showing the fatigue cracking of the part. https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviati...11-02-1344.htm

Dan

  #17  
Old March 7th 21, 08:44 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
barrflyr
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Posts: 2
Default Pawnee air-oil bear strut pressure

On Tuesday, March 6, 2018 at 12:46:11 PM UTC-6, Dan Daly wrote:
On Tuesday, March 6, 2018 at 10:55:02 AM UTC-5, Roy B. wrote:
On the subject of Pawnee landing gear - be very careful of the Hutch conversion 2 piece slab type gear that is fixed with 3 vertical bolts. If the centermost bolt fails (as it can from vibration over the years) the gear collapses, the prop strikes the ground, and you have a totaled plane from a situation that really can't be detected/inspected before the failure. We lost a towplane that way in a very light landing on grass when the bolt snapped.
The bungee system has some redundancy and the Cessna one piece gear slab is good - but the 2 piece Hutch gear is a problem.
ROY

The PA-25 SB 25/32/04 dated 01/03/2008 describes a Main Landing Gear Shock Absorption System modification adding a cable to restrict lateral movement of the landing gear leg should a piece of the Hydrasorb shock absorber crack and fail (which they do). We had a Pawnee mod'd (bungee gear system) and had the failure of one support on landing. The down wingtip didn't touch, and neither did the prop. Laviasa had a kit (KIT LA-K-005) with support fittings, a security cable, and longer bolts. Money well spent. I have a soft copy of the SB (2 pages text, 3 pages drawings) if anyone wants one. Also pics of the cable having done its job, a closeup of the installation, and a pic of an unluckier Pawnee without the mod kit.

For light reading, I attach a link to a Canadian Civil Aviation Safety Alert showing the fatigue cracking of the part. https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviati...11-02-1344.htm

Dan

Dan
Please send the Laviasa PA-25 SB 25/32/04.
John
  #18  
Old March 9th 21, 01:28 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Daly[_2_]
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Posts: 702
Default Pawnee air-oil bear strut pressure

On Sunday, March 7, 2021 at 3:44:34 PM UTC-5, barrflyr wrote:
On Tuesday, March 6, 2018 at 12:46:11 PM UTC-6, Dan Daly wrote:
On Tuesday, March 6, 2018 at 10:55:02 AM UTC-5, Roy B. wrote:
On the subject of Pawnee landing gear - be very careful of the Hutch conversion 2 piece slab type gear that is fixed with 3 vertical bolts. If the centermost bolt fails (as it can from vibration over the years) the gear collapses, the prop strikes the ground, and you have a totaled plane from a situation that really can't be detected/inspected before the failure. We lost a towplane that way in a very light landing on grass when the bolt snapped.
The bungee system has some redundancy and the Cessna one piece gear slab is good - but the 2 piece Hutch gear is a problem.
ROY

The PA-25 SB 25/32/04 dated 01/03/2008 describes a Main Landing Gear Shock Absorption System modification adding a cable to restrict lateral movement of the landing gear leg should a piece of the Hydrasorb shock absorber crack and fail (which they do). We had a Pawnee mod'd (bungee gear system) and had the failure of one support on landing. The down wingtip didn't touch, and neither did the prop. Laviasa had a kit (KIT LA-K-005) with support fittings, a security cable, and longer bolts. Money well spent. I have a soft copy of the SB (2 pages text, 3 pages drawings) if anyone wants one. Also pics of the cable having done its job, a closeup of the installation, and a pic of an unluckier Pawnee without the mod kit.

For light reading, I attach a link to a Canadian Civil Aviation Safety Alert showing the fatigue cracking of the part. https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviati...11-02-1344.htm

Dan

Dan
Please send the Laviasa PA-25 SB 25/32/04.
John

Love to, but "reply to author" which allows attachments is not available. If you'd like it, you'll have to send me an e-mail or your e-mail address.

Dan
  #19  
Old March 9th 21, 01:24 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 209
Default Pawnee air-oil bear strut pressure

On Monday, March 5, 2018 at 9:37:44 PM UTC-5, Charles Longley wrote:
OK I give up. What part are you talking about?

Charlie
Pilot/ A&P


Larry, all you need to do is call Dan at Aerial Banners in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida. Dan is the most knowledgeable person around concerning Pawnee's, he operates about 60 of them and his rebuild shop is impressive. Tell him that I sent you, he will be the best contact available for Pawnee information.. Bob
  #20  
Old March 11th 21, 01:58 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tony[_7_]
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Posts: 38
Default Pawnee air-oil bear strut pressure

On Tuesday, March 9, 2021 at 8:24:22 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, March 5, 2018 at 9:37:44 PM UTC-5, Charles Longley wrote:
OK I give up. What part are you talking about?

Charlie
Pilot/ A&P

Larry, all you need to do is call Dan at Aerial Banners in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida. Dan is the most knowledgeable person around concerning Pawnee's, he operates about 60 of them and his rebuild shop is impressive. Tell him that I sent you, he will be the best contact available for Pawnee information. Bob

Yes, but be sure ro speak with Dan - owner Bobby is a sociopath!
 




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