A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Soaring
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

$1 billion BMS Ooops...



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #81  
Old March 7th 21, 11:08 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,885
Default $1 billion BMS Ooops...

Moshe Braner wrote on 3/7/2021 2:07 PM:
But I'm getting further off topic.* Gliders are nice.* They don't need no steenkin' engines.


Alright! Back to Basics: bungey launch! Or is it still OK to use electric motors? No steenk there.
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

Ads
  #82  
Old March 7th 21, 11:18 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
John Galloway[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 45
Default $1 billion BMS Ooops...

On Sunday, 7 March 2021 at 22:04:16 UTC, Moshe Braner wrote:
On 3/7/2021 8:31 AM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Sun, 07 Mar 2021 04:44:36 -0800, Mark Mocho wrote:

It suggests one way to make mass electric-powered air transport work:
Put the pax and cargo in nice accommodation on a large airship and tow
it cross country behind an electric locomotive running on repurposed
AmTrak tracks.

And just what happens when the train goes under a bridge?

Another unicorn inspired idea. Keep 'em coming. I need the laughs.


The author is a bit more than a unicorn, methinks. He's well-regarded in
technical circles.

Anyhow, if such a system was set up it could obviously only work on lines
that have no tunnels and that don't run in deep valleys (so not on the
Glendale-Denver line obviously), and that have been 'adjusted' so that
the line is always at the top of the crossing stack.

It would also be faster than the old Goon Show concept of horse-drawn
zeppelins.

Or you can use the newfangled idea of making that airship very narrow
and fly it very low to the ground so it can go under the bridges and
through tunnels. Oh wait...

While the rest of the world has double-tracked and electrified their
long-range railroads (e.g., the trans-Siberia), here in the US we sit on
our heels while a few loonies play with "pods" and other nonsense.

But I'm getting further off topic. Gliders are nice. They don't need
no steenkin' engines.


I have yet to see a glider take off (bungee launches excepted) or return from a field without an engine.

  #83  
Old March 8th 21, 12:40 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Mark Mocho
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 83
Default $1 billion BMS Ooops...

I have yet to see a glider take off (bungee launches excepted) or return from a field without an engine.

Does the one in the tow vehicle count?

  #84  
Old March 8th 21, 01:48 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tom BravoMike
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 265
Default $1 billion BMS Ooops...


I have yet to see a glider take off (bungee launches excepted) or return from a field without an engine.


See and believe:
https://youtu.be/_JNg9zwvDkI?list=PLC40EB4949AD5395B

Been there, done that. With a favorable wind one circle was enough to get high over the heads of the observers at the gravity launch site, and hours long ridge/wave soaring was possible.

BTW, Bezmiechowa is the place where Wanda Modlibowska set a new women's duration record of 24 hours 14 minutes in May 1937. When I was there for the first time, other pilots from our group did night ridge soaring in a 'Bocian' glider (by design equipped with position lights). The ridge line was marked with a series of campfires.

In 1993-95 night flights were still part of the training for licensed glider pilots in some places in Poland. Happy to have that exotic (and extinct?) endorsement in my logbook.

Just keen memories in a thread about dreams about self-launching gliders (in expectation of a new soaring season).
  #85  
Old March 8th 21, 02:04 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Moshe Braner
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 95
Default $1 billion BMS Ooops...

On 3/7/2021 6:08 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Moshe Braner wrote on 3/7/2021 2:07 PM:
But I'm getting further off topic.* Gliders are nice.* They don't need
no steenkin' engines.


Alright! Back to Basics: bungey launch! Or is it still OK to use
electric motors? No steenk there.


Lighten up, Eric and others. I was just saying that in gliders we don't
need to be dragged cross-country by a locomotive. I have nothing
against launching by some motorized thing or another.

And back to the topic, we have some people who believe all the hype from
Saint Elon about new batteries etc, and others who are more skeptical.
But we all revel in what has been achieved in electric glider launching
and sustaining, and hope for more. It's a lot more feasible than
electric air transport.

Personally I think that dragging an expensive battery pack along in
every glider is inefficient use of resources. But then you may say the
same about dragging equally, if not more, expensive composite structures
around the sky. We do what we have to do to achieve our aerial dance
performances. Then we land, and like any performance art, it's all gone
poof, into the past. We only do it because we love it.
  #86  
Old March 8th 21, 04:30 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
2G
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,385
Default $1 billion BMS Ooops...

On Thursday, March 4, 2021 at 1:55:30 PM UTC-8, Kenn Sebesta wrote:
A hybrid system with a gas engine wouldn't have the pucker factor associated with starting a
gas powered motorglider to avoid a landing: if the hybrid engine doesn't start, it just means
your potential retrieve distance is shorter, instead of an imminent landing.

I'll wade in here with some experience. Top Flight, a Boston startup specializing in hybrid propulsion systems, spend over half a decade developing their power unit. The hardest part for them was developing a unit which was reliable. Motors don't like vibration and they don't like heat. Combine the two together and the motor is not long for this world. It took a lot more R&D than anyone expected to make a lightweight package which could survive..

I would not expect anyone to be deploying this technology anytime soon. If and when it is commercialized, it will be useful for ferry flights of electric aircraft. For any use which requires permanent installation, you're probably better having it drive the propeller directly.

eGliders, I sense a tone here which is reminiscent of discussions about finally putting the 2-33 to rest. The US is no longer the forefront of light aviation, so we need to look east to see what the trends are. We know that leading glider manufacturers are racing to bring eGliders to market. A gentleman who works on glider competition rules noted this summer that glider records are falling left and right to eGliders. There is a growing group of amateurs who are pulling their engines out of their gas self-launchers and replacing them with electric (If you'd like to be a part of this group, DM me). The future was yesterday, but like any future it doesn't arrive at all places at once.


Why don't you start by naming JUST ONE that replaced an ICE with an electric.

Tom
  #87  
Old March 8th 21, 04:49 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,885
Default $1 billion BMS Ooops...

Tom BravoMike wrote on 3/7/2021 5:48 PM:

I have yet to see a glider take off (bungee launches excepted) or return from a field without an engine.


See and believe:
https://youtu.be/_JNg9zwvDkI?list=PLC40EB4949AD5395B

Been there, done that. With a favorable wind one circle was enough to get high over the heads of the observers at the gravity launch site, and hours long ridge/wave soaring was possible.

BTW, Bezmiechowa is the place where Wanda Modlibowska set a new women's duration record of 24 hours 14 minutes in May 1937. When I was there for the first time, other pilots from our group did night ridge soaring in a 'Bocian' glider (by design equipped with position lights). The ridge line was marked with a series of campfires.

In 1993-95 night flights were still part of the training for licensed glider pilots in some places in Poland. Happy to have that exotic (and extinct?) endorsement in my logbook.

Just keen memories in a thread about dreams about self-launching gliders (in expectation of a new soaring season).

Bungee AND gravity launch! Yahoo!

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
  #88  
Old March 8th 21, 04:52 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,885
Default $1 billion BMS Ooops...

2G wrote on 3/7/2021 8:30 PM:
On Thursday, March 4, 2021 at 1:55:30 PM UTC-8, Kenn Sebesta wrote:
A hybrid system with a gas engine wouldn't have the pucker factor associated with starting a
gas powered motorglider to avoid a landing: if the hybrid engine doesn't start, it just means
your potential retrieve distance is shorter, instead of an imminent landing.

I'll wade in here with some experience. Top Flight, a Boston startup specializing in hybrid propulsion systems, spend over half a decade developing their power unit. The hardest part for them was developing a unit which was reliable. Motors don't like vibration and they don't like heat. Combine the two together and the motor is not long for this world. It took a lot more R&D than anyone expected to make a lightweight package which could survive..

I would not expect anyone to be deploying this technology anytime soon. If and when it is commercialized, it will be useful for ferry flights of electric aircraft. For any use which requires permanent installation, you're probably better having it drive the propeller directly.

eGliders, I sense a tone here which is reminiscent of discussions about finally putting the 2-33 to rest. The US is no longer the forefront of light aviation, so we need to look east to see what the trends are. We know that leading glider manufacturers are racing to bring eGliders to market. A gentleman who works on glider competition rules noted this summer that glider records are falling left and right to eGliders. There is a growing group of amateurs who are pulling their engines out of their gas self-launchers and replacing them with electric (If you'd like to be a part of this group, DM me). The future was yesterday, but like any future it doesn't arrive at all places at once.


Why don't you start by naming JUST ONE that replaced an ICE with an electric.

Tom

Hank Nixon.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
  #89  
Old March 8th 21, 05:06 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
2G
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,385
Default $1 billion BMS Ooops...

On Sunday, March 7, 2021 at 8:52:23 PM UTC-8, Eric Greenwell wrote:
2G wrote on 3/7/2021 8:30 PM:
On Thursday, March 4, 2021 at 1:55:30 PM UTC-8, Kenn Sebesta wrote:
A hybrid system with a gas engine wouldn't have the pucker factor associated with starting a
gas powered motorglider to avoid a landing: if the hybrid engine doesn't start, it just means
your potential retrieve distance is shorter, instead of an imminent landing.
I'll wade in here with some experience. Top Flight, a Boston startup specializing in hybrid propulsion systems, spend over half a decade developing their power unit. The hardest part for them was developing a unit which was reliable. Motors don't like vibration and they don't like heat. Combine the two together and the motor is not long for this world. It took a lot more R&D than anyone expected to make a lightweight package which could survive..

I would not expect anyone to be deploying this technology anytime soon.. If and when it is commercialized, it will be useful for ferry flights of electric aircraft. For any use which requires permanent installation, you're probably better having it drive the propeller directly.

eGliders, I sense a tone here which is reminiscent of discussions about finally putting the 2-33 to rest. The US is no longer the forefront of light aviation, so we need to look east to see what the trends are. We know that leading glider manufacturers are racing to bring eGliders to market.. A gentleman who works on glider competition rules noted this summer that glider records are falling left and right to eGliders. There is a growing group of amateurs who are pulling their engines out of their gas self-launchers and replacing them with electric (If you'd like to be a part of this group, DM me). The future was yesterday, but like any future it doesn't arrive at all places at once.


Why don't you start by naming JUST ONE that replaced an ICE with an electric.

Tom

Hank Nixon.
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

And what was the glider?
  #90  
Old March 8th 21, 11:43 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,380
Default $1 billion BMS Ooops...

On Monday, March 8, 2021 at 12:06:57 AM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
On Sunday, March 7, 2021 at 8:52:23 PM UTC-8, Eric Greenwell wrote:
2G wrote on 3/7/2021 8:30 PM:
On Thursday, March 4, 2021 at 1:55:30 PM UTC-8, Kenn Sebesta wrote:
A hybrid system with a gas engine wouldn't have the pucker factor associated with starting a
gas powered motorglider to avoid a landing: if the hybrid engine doesn't start, it just means
your potential retrieve distance is shorter, instead of an imminent landing.
I'll wade in here with some experience. Top Flight, a Boston startup specializing in hybrid propulsion systems, spend over half a decade developing their power unit. The hardest part for them was developing a unit which was reliable. Motors don't like vibration and they don't like heat. Combine the two together and the motor is not long for this world. It took a lot more R&D than anyone expected to make a lightweight package which could survive..

I would not expect anyone to be deploying this technology anytime soon. If and when it is commercialized, it will be useful for ferry flights of electric aircraft. For any use which requires permanent installation, you're probably better having it drive the propeller directly.

eGliders, I sense a tone here which is reminiscent of discussions about finally putting the 2-33 to rest. The US is no longer the forefront of light aviation, so we need to look east to see what the trends are. We know that leading glider manufacturers are racing to bring eGliders to market. A gentleman who works on glider competition rules noted this summer that glider records are falling left and right to eGliders. There is a growing group of amateurs who are pulling their engines out of their gas self-launchers and replacing them with electric (If you'd like to be a part of this group, DM me). The future was yesterday, but like any future it doesn't arrive at all places at once.

Why don't you start by naming JUST ONE that replaced an ICE with an electric.

Tom

Hank Nixon.
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

And what was the glider?

ASW-24e
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Navy Obfuscates On Shock Testing The $13 Billion USS Ford - The 13 Billion Dollar 'Berthing Barge' USS Gerald R. Ford, sitting in a shipyard.jpg ... Miloch Aviation Photos 1 October 25th 19 02:36 AM
Wow! Ooops, take #3 Dave Nadler Soaring 21 April 4th 15 09:26 PM
Ooops... Zomby Woof[_3_] Aviation Photos 0 April 21st 09 04:36 AM
ooopS! my Bdadd Bertie the Bunyip[_2_] Piloting 4 March 29th 07 10:40 PM
Ooops - Correction Bill Denton Piloting 0 August 9th 04 01:53 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:22 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2021 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.