What is a "Forward Skip"?

On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 13:34:48 -0800, "Peter Duniho"
wrote:

"kontiki" wrote in message
...
In theory of course. In the case of the 172 with 40 degrees of flaps they
contribute more drag than lift.

In practice too. The relative amounts of drag and lift are irrelevant to
the fact that using the flaps lowers the stall speed, and that doing so does
not make it any easier "to end up real slow in a slip".

Your assertion that "With full flaps its easy to end up real slow in a slip
and approach a stall" is just plain nonsense, and certainly has nothing to
do with the *warning* (not prohibition) against slipping while flaps are
extended (even if there were something to your claim about flaps making it
easier to stall).

Pete


Odd, but interesting thread. I haven't heard of tail stall before.
But if I've got the basics correct, don't flaps allow the aircraft to
fly at slow airspeeds with a lower angle of attack, including both
wing and tailplane? So flaps should reduce the likelihood of any
stall, provided enough power is applied to those draggy 40 deg
settings. The wing stalls at a specific angle of attack, and I don't
think the flaps change that characteristic; not that it has been
suggested anywhere.

I may be wrong, but isn't this one reason why airliners need flaps at
landing? So they don't bounce the tail on touchdown? Or more likely
so the pilot can see the landing area; aside from just reducing
required runway length.
--
Mike

Drat!! Well, some brain matter must have slipped out of my cranium
somewhere along the way. I'm sure that it doesn't help that I haven't been
current in 6 years...my god, how have I let that happen?

Thanks for the correction.

Slip'er

"Bob Moore" wrote in message
. 121...
"Slip'er" wrote

I heard references to "forward slip" to get rid of altitude on
approach.

Both prior posts pretty much nailed it. A forward slip can be made
either to the left or right. Basically, you intentionally use cross
controls (rudder & aeleron). I believe that a forward slip generally
refers to using a slip to keep the aircraft aligned with the runway
for landing in a crosswind. This could mean landing on one wheel to
maintain directional orientation. This is my preferred approach when
flying in a cross wind in a taildragger.

A side slip is similar but in this scenario, the slip is can be more
aggressive. A side slip is used to shed altitude.

I do believe that you have them reversed..........

From http://www.airbum.com/articles/ArticleSlips.html

The old fashioned forward slip is one of those maneuvers that on one hand
would appear to be redundant to modern flap systems. At the same time,
it's one of those basic maneuvers that if understood and practiced gives
the pilot yet another tool enabling him to put the airplane exactly where
he wants it on approach.

Unless we're talking about the so-called side slip in which a slipping
motion to the side is canceled out by the crosswind so the airplane
tracks straight.

Bob Moore
ATP CFI

I could lose my call sign for this! Don't tell anybody. That was a nice
article Bob.

slip'er... you have them reversed..

"Mike Rhodes"
On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 13:34:48 -0800, "Peter Duniho"

Your assertion that "With full flaps its easy to end up real slow in a
slip
and approach a stall" is just plain nonsense, and certainly has nothing to
do with the *warning* (not prohibition) against slipping while flaps are
extended (even if there were something to your claim about flaps making it
easier to stall).

Pete


Odd, but interesting thread. I haven't heard of tail stall before.

Very uncommon and very serious. Weight and balance (forward C of G) and
icing can cause it. It's just a wing.

But if I've got the basics correct, don't flaps allow the aircraft to
fly at slow airspeeds with a lower angle of attack, including both
wing and tailplane?

Wing.

So flaps should reduce the likelihood of any
stall, provided enough power is applied to those draggy 40 deg
settings. The wing stalls at a specific angle of attack, and I don't
think the flaps change that characteristic; not that it has been
suggested anywhere.

Flaps change the shape of the wing and allow it to fly at a higher angle of
attack before stall. A higher angle of attack before stall allows a higher
coeiffcient of lift. Stall speed is reduced. Drag is increased. Forward
visibility is improved at slow airspeeds. Drag increases. Top speed is
reduced (white arc). Trim is affected noticibly. That's all the practical
stuff you need to know. But:

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question...cs/q0008.shtml
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question...cs/q0005.shtml
http://www.av8n.com/how/htm/vdamp.ht...ffect-of-flaps

Actually, read all of this:

http://www.av8n.com/how/


I may be wrong, but isn't this one reason why airliners need flaps at
landing? So they don't bounce the tail on touchdown? Or more likely
so the pilot can see the landing area; aside from just reducing
required runway length.

No.

moo

"Slip'er" wrote in message
news:s1oDd.43020$8e5.10796@fed1read07...
I could lose my call sign for this! Don't tell anybody. That was a nice
article Bob.

You are OK A slip is a slip is a slip. The airplane knows no difference.



slip'er... you have them reversed..

"Happy Dog" wrote in message
...
"kontiki" wrote in message

But any properly trained low time student can recover from a stall
without spinning.

Stefan

I would not necessarily go so far as to say that. Working on my CFI
I had to undergo spin training... actually recovering from spins
multiple times. That training is not nromally a part of student
pilot training.

Yeah. Drag that. It is in Canada. Requirement on CPL test.

Remember that a spin requires a stall of one wing... the other
can be flying quite normally. Students are typically tought stalls
under coordinated conditions.

Have you stalled in a slip? It's no harder to recover than any other
power
off stall. Which wing drops?

In a lot of planes neither.

only some of the 172s have 40deg. and it's like a parachute if you want
to lose some altitude quick. it was explained to me that, on that ac,
up to 20degrees you were getting lift and drag...beyond 20degrees, it's
all drag. i'll believe it.

dan

Peter Duniho wrote:

I guess that's what we get for answering Ramapriya's questions.
We're
turning into rec.aviation.student.

Yes mate, I know what you want to say.
And I didn't even start this thread

Bob Moore wrote:

I do believe that you have them reversed..........

From http://www.airbum.com/articles/ArticleSlips.html

Nice article. Nice runway shots, though in the last pic I'd have
captioned 'flare' instead

Ramapriya

"Dave Stadt" wrote in
Have you stalled in a slip? It's no harder to recover than any other
power
off stall. Which wing drops?

In a lot of planes neither.

Idiot.

moo