If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#71
|
|||
|
|||
"Greg Hennessy" wrote in message ... On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 02:06:46 GMT, "weary" wrote: The aiming point for the Hiroshima bomb was a bridge in a mainly residential area, not any of the military or industrial assets. By definition the target was civilians since that is where the bomb was aimed. Which of course is a lie. So in your fantasy world you aim about a mile from the real target. http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agor...hirodamap.html Ohh look at that. The HQ of the local military district right in the zone of complete destruction. Which seems to be the only military asset in the zone. Its clear that the people were the real target. greg -- Once you try my burger baby,you'll grow a new thyroid gland. I said just eat my burger, baby,make you smart as Charlie Chan. You say the hot sauce can't be beat. Sit back and open wide. |
#72
|
|||
|
|||
In article ,
"weary" wrote: "Greg Hennessy" wrote in message ... http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agor...hirodamap.html Ohh look at that. The HQ of the local military district right in the zone of complete destruction. Which seems to be the only military asset in the zone. This map doesn't show the rest of the details. That Military District Headquarters held the 11th Infantry Regiment, the 5th Division Headquarters, a major artillery detachment, and a number of other things, including the Prefectural office and the City Hall. It was also the HQ of the invasion defense of that entire section of the island. If you're dropping a nuke on Hiroshima in 1945, you couldn't do a whole lot better for targeting. Its clear that the people were the real target. Yeah, the military people. -- cirby at cfl.rr.com Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations. Slam on brakes accordingly. |
#74
|
|||
|
|||
On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 08:52:03 GMT, "weary" wrote:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agor...hirodamap.html Ohh look at that. The HQ of the local military district right in the zone of complete destruction. Which seems to be the only military asset in the zone. Your point ? Tell us how a conventional raid of B29s would have killed 2 divisions worth of soldiers plus the HQ staff for the entire region and *not* caused collateral damage. Its clear that the people were the real target. The manhattan project targetting committee says otherwise. greg -- Once you try my burger baby,you'll grow a new thyroid gland. I said just eat my burger, baby,make you smart as Charlie Chan. You say the hot sauce can't be beat. Sit back and open wide. |
#75
|
|||
|
|||
"Chad Irby" wrote in message om... In article , "weary" wrote: "Greg Hennessy" wrote in message ... http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agor...hirodamap.html Ohh look at that. The HQ of the local military district right in the zone of complete destruction. Which seems to be the only military asset in the zone. This map doesn't show the rest of the details. That Military District Headquarters held the 11th Infantry Regiment, the 5th Division Headquarters, a major artillery detachment, and a number of other things, including the Prefectural office and the City Hall. It was also the HQ of the invasion defense of that entire section of the island. If you're dropping a nuke on Hiroshima in 1945, you couldn't do a whole lot better for targeting. Its clear that the people were the real target. Yeah, the military people. Then why did the targetting demand that the target must be in a large urban atrea? |
#76
|
|||
|
|||
"weary" wrote:
"Chad Irby" wrote: "weary" wrote: Its clear that the people were the real target. Yeah, the military people. Then why did the targetting demand that the target must be in a large urban atrea? Because pretty much every major unbombed military target in Japan at the time was *in* a large urban area. Once again: This map doesn't show the rest of the details. That Military District Headquarters held the 11th Infantry Regiment, the 5th Division Headquarters, a major artillery detachment, and a number of other things, including the Prefectural office and the City Hall. It was also the HQ of the invasion defense of that entire section of the island. What part of that did you not understand? -- cirby at cfl.rr.com Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations. Slam on brakes accordingly. |
#77
|
|||
|
|||
From: "weary"
Date: 1/2/2004 5:02 PM Central Standard Time Message-id: "Chad Irby" wrote in message . com... In article , "weary" wrote: "Greg Hennessy" wrote in message ... http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agor...hirodamap.html Ohh look at that. The HQ of the local military district right in the zone of complete destruction. Which seems to be the only military asset in the zone. This map doesn't show the rest of the details. That Military District Headquarters held the 11th Infantry Regiment, the 5th Division Headquarters, a major artillery detachment, and a number of other things, including the Prefectural office and the City Hall. It was also the HQ of the invasion defense of that entire section of the island. If you're dropping a nuke on Hiroshima in 1945, you couldn't do a whole lot better for targeting. Its clear that the people were the real target. Yeah, the military people. Then why did the targetting demand that the target must be in a large urban atrea? Because that's where the valid military targets were. I don't understand why you can't see that. Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired |
#78
|
|||
|
|||
"weary" wrote: "Chad Irby" wrote in message . com... In article , "weary" wrote: "Greg Hennessy" wrote in message ... http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agor...hirodamap.html Ohh look at that. The HQ of the local military district right in the zone of complete destruction. Which seems to be the only military asset in the zone. This map doesn't show the rest of the details. That Military District Headquarters held the 11th Infantry Regiment, the 5th Division Headquarters, a major artillery detachment, and a number of other things, including the Prefectural office and the City Hall. It was also the HQ of the invasion defense of that entire section of the island. If you're dropping a nuke on Hiroshima in 1945, you couldn't do a whole lot better for targeting. Its clear that the people were the real target. Yeah, the military people. Then why did the targetting demand that the target must be in a large urban atrea? Military and Military industries were in such large urban areas. Proximity of civilians does not make such targets immune to attack. You could take out those targets with today's LGBs and JDAMS, and not kill many civlians, but such accuracy was not possible in '45. 15 Kt on Hiroshma and 20 Kt on Nagasaki is preferable to the U.S. Sixth Army hitting the beaches of Kyushu on or after 1 November '45 with expected casualties in the 55-75,000 range for Kyushu. I'd rather risk a few B-29 crews on the nuclear strikes than the Sixth Army, 3rd and 5th Fleets, FEAF and Marine Tac Air crews, and B-17, B-24 and B-29 crews of 8th and 20th AFs, plus the Lancaster crews of the RAF Tiger Force. Posted via www.My-Newsgroups.com - web to news gateway for usenet access! |
#79
|
|||
|
|||
(Tom Hartman) wrote: (cave fish) wrote in message m... Dave Smith wrote in message ... RogerM wrote: First off, **** Japan, they started it, we finished it. First off, **** you asshole. The women and children who were murdered didn't have **** to with Pearl Harbor. Sure they did. They were part of an imperialist society that had been expanding in the Pacific. They were the people who were providing the men to serve in the Japanese armed forces which had invaded China and other Asian countries where they were set loose to terrorize the populace with unimaginable atrocities. The people in those cities were busy manufacturing war materials and providing other services that helped the war effort. You are partly right. No one is completely innocent, which is how Palestinians justify their bombing of Jewish civilians and how Al Qaeda defends its attack on NY. Since all of us pay taxes that support US foreign policy, yes we are all guilty. However, in a case of open war between nations, while it may be justified to bomb key industrial areas supplying the war effort, do tell me how a newborn baby in a Hiroshima is guilty of anything? Or, kindergarten students? Or, members of the opposition? Or, those in jail for standing up to Japanese militarism? Or, old folks living out their last days? The horror of Hiroshima is the sheer indiscrimate nature of the destruction. If atom bomb had been dropped on a Japanese military target it might have been justified. But, to kill like that in Hiroshima and Nagasaki was blind and savage overkill. There were more casualties from US napalming of the Japanese than from the A bomb. I was reading "Flyboys," an excellent book, and it had a section quoting one of the Japanese military leaders who said that was more demoralizing than the strike by the Enola Gay. You're forgetting that post-Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the fear that even a single B-29 would be carrying an A-bomb that spread in Japan. Even recon planes were feared. And now it meant one plane, one bomb, one city. Posted via www.My-Newsgroups.com - web to news gateway for usenet access! |
#80
|
|||
|
|||
"Chad Irby" wrote in message . com... "weary" wrote: "Chad Irby" wrote: "weary" wrote: Its clear that the people were the real target. Yeah, the military people. Then why did the targetting demand that the target must be in a large urban atrea? Because pretty much every major unbombed military target in Japan at the time was *in* a large urban area. Then why insisit on it? However you are wrong. The Target Committee meeting that produced that requirement was held 10-11 May 1945, at which time the bombing campaign was still in its relatively early stages. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Hiroshima justified? (was Enola Gay: Burnt flesh and other magnificent technological achievements) | Linda Terrell | Military Aviation | 37 | January 7th 04 02:51 PM |
Hiroshima justified? (was Enola Gay: Burnt flesh and other | B2431 | Military Aviation | 7 | December 29th 03 07:00 AM |
Hiroshima justified? (was Enola Gay: Burnt flesh and othermagnificent technological achievements) | mrraveltay | Military Aviation | 7 | December 23rd 03 01:01 AM |
Enola Gay: Burnt flesh and other magnificent | B2431 | Military Aviation | 1 | December 20th 03 01:19 PM |
Enola Gay: Burnt flesh and other magnificent technological | ArtKramr | Military Aviation | 19 | December 20th 03 02:47 AM |