I Want My Own Bird

Jay Honeck wrote:

I would hope that "criminal intent" still counts for *something* in this
country, or we are surely all doomed.

I realize the law would probably consider both as manslaughter rather than
murder, but I still feel that is too light.


So what responsibility do the victims have here? The dead best friend and
the girl who was injured (whose parents are suing the hotel where the
wedding reception was held) apparently got into this guy's car knowing that
he was drunk, right?

I agree they have responsibility. I wasn't talking about civil
lawsuits, but rather criminal punishment. I don't agree with the big
civil lawsuits for just the reason you mention here.

Matt

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message news:e8nbd.387285$Fg5.160236@attbi_s53...
Doesn't matter. You cannot serve or allow to be served, anyone under 21.

And that is a ridiculous law. Also, there is more to it in Iowa City than
meets the eye.

So, take it up with your legislature. They make the laws, not
lawyers. I suggest you take a basic course in government.

I think this is crazy. As an 18 year old, you can sign a legal contract.
You can buy a gun. You can (in wartime) be drafted. In every respect,
save one, you are legally an adult at age 18.

Why this type of unconstitutional discrimination is legal is a complete
mystery to me. When I was growing up, we could have a beer at 18.

Either make adulthood start at age 21, or make it 18 -- but don't try to
fudge the distinction.

So, take it up with Congress. Your republican friends control both
houses and the white house. That's where that distinction was made.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message news:F1nbd.236384$MQ5.74865@attbi_s52...
....
He didn't kill someone in the same sense as a criminal with a gun. He
killed someone through neglect. Worse, he killed his best friend in a car
accident, which will surely haunt him all the days of his life.

He killed two people??!! Gee, I really feel sorry for him now. As
for the distinction between a criminal with a gun and this killer,
let's ask the dead girl how she perceives the difference.


I can't believe I'm even arguing this. Whatever happened to personal
responsibility in this country?

Yes, good question. What did happen to it, Jay?

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message news:HZtbd.246622$D%.7709@attbi_s51...
Not in my book. Driving after drinking, unless someone forces you at
gunpoint, is just as intentional as any other form of murder.

How can you equate premeditated murder with a car accident while under the
influence?

I would hope that "criminal intent" still counts for *something* in this
country, or we are surely all doomed.

Uhh, Jay, what happened to your plea for "personal responsibility"?

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message news:_9Ibd.250150$D%.247549@attbi_s51...
The hotel served or allowed alcohol to be served to an underage person.
Soon as they do that their fate is sealed and they only have to look in a
mirror to find the guilty party.

Total, utter crap.

Good argument.

Have you ever been to a big wedding reception? You know as well as I do
that there is a beer tapper in a corner, and a mob scene at the bar. In the
celebratory chaos it is child's play (literally!) for a 21-year old friend
to feed beers to an 18-year old at a wedding reception.

To hold the hotel responsible for the death of that boy is ridiculous, and a
travesty of justice. To send the victim's best friend to prison for 25
pointless years is even more of an injustice. What possible point is there
in sending that kid away for a quarter of a century?

"Liability lawyers" have nothing to do with sending the killer to
prison. Your district attorney and judge (not to mention the
legislature that passed the criminal law that governs this) do.
Again, Jay, a good civics course might help.

At some point in life you just have to say "**** happens", and stop trying
to blame everyone for it. To equate this tragic accident with premeditated
murder is ignorant, and not at all in keeping with the spirit of the law.

THIS is why I despise liability attorneys, and everything they stand for.
They're not interested in justice; they're interested in cash, and they're
playing on a victim's desire for revenge in order to achieve their goals.

And everyone pays for it.

Actually, "everyone" pays very little for it. What do you suppose is
the cost to everyone for the deaths, destroyed lives, children without
parents and siblings, medical costs and all else that drunk driving
cause? Just so the hotel can make a buck. Go have a few more beers,
Jay.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:e8nbd.387285$Fg5.160236@attbi_s53...
I think this is crazy. As an 18 year old, you can sign a legal contract.
You can buy a gun. You can (in wartime) be drafted. In every respect,
save one, you are legally an adult at age 18.

It was apparently brought in because of the large number of 18-21 year
olds drinking and driving. Rather unfair to stop ANY 18-21 yr olds
drinking because of the idiots who then go on to drive. What about
those who don't have a car? Or are drinking within walking distance
of home? Or both? Or are in college?

Paul

It was apparently brought in because of the large number of 18-21 year
olds drinking and driving. Rather unfair to stop ANY 18-21 yr olds
drinking because of the idiots who then go on to drive. What about
those who don't have a car? Or are drinking within walking distance
of home? Or both? Or are in college?

There you go again, Paul. Trying to confuse the thread with facts and
logic... ;-)

(Hey, BTW: We just had a woman from England staying with us this past week.
She gave us a giant bag of Cadbury "roses" -- wow, are *those* awesome
little candies! My caloric intake for today was astronomical, after
munching them like popcorn all day... Next time you come to the states,
bring us a bunch of those, please -- along with some more of that great ale
you brought last time!

Or is it our turn to visit next?)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:1ejcd.404194$Fg5.271656@attbi_s53...
(Hey, BTW: We just had a woman from England staying with us this past
week.
She gave us a giant bag of Cadbury "roses" -- wow, are *those* awesome
little candies! My caloric intake for today was astronomical, after
munching them like popcorn all day... Next time you come to the states,
bring us a bunch of those, please -- along with some more of that great
ale
you brought last time!

I'll have to bring some of each of the different selections. Quality Street
is
rather nice too.

Or is it our turn to visit next?)

Hey, renting out my spare room again, but if you don't mind staying
in a hotel/B&B, you're welcome any time! Summer if best though
especially if you want to attempt to come flying...

Not sure I'll be coming back to the US soon due to all the restrictions
on flying and so on now happening. Still, got some more aviation
museums on my list to see!

The beer is easier if you do come here! :-)

Paul

Not sure I'll be coming back to the US soon due to all the restrictions
on flying and so on now happening. Still, got some more aviation
museums on my list to see!

What restrictions on flying?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:5CFcd.410244$Fg5.312213@attbi_s53...
Not sure I'll be coming back to the US soon due to all the restrictions
on flying and so on now happening. Still, got some more aviation
museums on my list to see!

What restrictions on flying?

The TSA stuff. Non US-citizens having to be photographed,
fingerprinted, forms filled in, $130 paid, records kept, all by each
instructor you go to for a BFR (probably) or checkout (maybe).
The instructor has had to go through mandatory "security
awareness" training in order to do all this. Actually it looks like
they need to do this anyway, so that may be a non-issue.

Since I already have an FAA certificate I don't have to go through
all the other hoops to get one of those, but it's all changed now.

Paul