Letter to the FAA

On Thursday, May 25, 2017 at 12:19:11 PM UTC-6, wrote:
In other words, your saying, let's not talk about Seminole Lake Gliderport terminating poor Walt for bringing up safety concerns after 2 near accidents. That's clearly a deflection to avoid embarrassment.

If you want to deflect the conversation, then let's talk about how contestants violate airspace regulations and get penalized 1,060 points. What lessons can we learn from that too??

Perhaps a letter to the SSA is in order to block contest sanctioning to gliderports that have a know history of disregarding legitimate safety concerns. Maybe there are safer operations available that can host the 18M nationals?

Wilbur, no one violated FAA airspace per the penalty you speak of. Its a SSA contest overfly penalty. The lesson learned is once again you speak with your head in the darkness of your ass.

Best. #711.

At 14:09 25 May 2017, Charlie M. UH & 002 owner/pilot wrote:
Make the numbers matter, do a world list, I wonder if we would even
break a
dozen broken ships even worldwide.....let alone fatalities.

Open canopies probably break more gliders.

That might not help much. I have seen a schweizer hook on a tug in
the UK but not lately, I have seen lots of TOST hooks.
The other part of this was ensuring that the release in the tug is as
close as possible to the throttle, in the UK this is mandatory, mainly as
the result of a tug upset in which a good friend of mine is killed.

If there are people in gliding who are more concerned with commercial
concerns than the safety of pilots, that is a real problem. If the
problem cannot be solved voluntarily what is left.

If this is the case then goon on yer Walt, make them have it!

The potential for very bad unintended consequences resulting from your well meaning contact with the FAA is large enough to ask you to re-think contacting them.

SF and Burt are right - there is not a lot of knowledge on the FAA regulatory side about soaring so the opportunity for unintended consequences is large.

Let's fix the problem internally. Let's demand and expect higher proficiency on areotow, up our game as a sport with a focus on safety overall, provide clear expectations for pilot performance, provide high quality instruction, manage the risk through evidence based interventions/procedures and educate/empower/protect our tow-pilots rather than treating them as expendable or a necessary evil.

Checklists - canopies, spoilers!

If you fly a single place ship and only fly with a CFI-G the minimum amount "required" - go fly with an instructor, box the wake and so on - get some objective perspective on your flying and work on the fundamentals.

Ask Burt to do a site visit and seriously consider his input.

Question the "that's the way we've always done it" or the "back in the old days" mentality.

I'd never tow with anything other than a Tost hook, btw.

Fly safe!

Tom

Did you read what I wrote? I am actively trying to get my club to install a Tost hook. I think it's the right thing to do. However, there are many other things competing for our limited funds and time. Some of those things may actually yield a greater gain in safety than a Tost hook. I am not omniscient, are you? Do you know, with certainty, that what you want is the best thing for everyone else? How about working to persuade rather than advocate for the use of government force?

How can anyone be taken seriously who doesn't know the difference
between "your" and "you're"? Or "its" and "It's", or used double (and
more) punctuation marks? Or uses "their" instead of "his" (except when
the gender is known to be feminine) in the singular case? And all the
while using an alias to hide his identity?

Didn't listen to your English teacher?

And yes, I know several of the above are sentence fragments.

On 5/25/2017 12:19 PM, wrote:
In other words, your saying, let's not talk about Seminole Lake Gliderport terminating poor Walt for bringing up safety concerns after 2 near accidents. That's clearly a deflection to avoid embarrassment.

If you want to deflect the conversation, then let's talk about how contestants violate airspace regulations and get penalized 1,060 points. What lessons can we learn from that too??

Perhaps a letter to the SSA is in order to block contest sanctioning to gliderports that have a know history of disregarding legitimate safety concerns. Maybe there are safer operations available that can host the 18M nationals?

--
Dan, 5J

Grammar, the difference between knowing your ****, and knowing you're ****.


On Thursday, May 25, 2017 at 7:47:01 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
How can anyone be taken seriously who doesn't know the difference
between "your" and "you're"? Or "its" and "It's", or used double (and
more) punctuation marks? Or uses "their" instead of "his" (except when
the gender is known to be feminine) in the singular case? And all the
while using an alias to hide his identity?

Didn't listen to your English teacher?

And yes, I know several of the above are sentence fragments.

On 5/25/2017 12:19 PM, wrote:
In other words, your saying, let's not talk about Seminole Lake Gliderport terminating poor Walt for bringing up safety concerns after 2 near accidents. That's clearly a deflection to avoid embarrassment.

If you want to deflect the conversation, then let's talk about how contestants violate airspace regulations and get penalized 1,060 points. What lessons can we learn from that too??

Perhaps a letter to the SSA is in order to block contest sanctioning to gliderports that have a know history of disregarding legitimate safety concerns. Maybe there are safer operations available that can host the 18M nationals?

--
Dan, 5J

Originally Posted by Burt Compton - Marfa Gliders, west Texas

Walt,

Please don't write a letter to the FAA.
I understand your good intentions and valid points but asking the FAA to condemn Schweizer releases and make Tost tow release installations mandatory may ground 90% of our towplanes if and when the design and installation engineering is approved for our many different towplanes.

Not all towplanes are Pawnees. For example, moving the tow release handle in my Cessna 182 towplane up by the throttle would be problematic if not impossible.

What is needed to be emphasized is proper and RECURRENT training of glider pilots to stay just a bit above the wake on tow (which places the glider pilots' sight picture of the towplane above the horizon, higher than most pilots would think until they try it) to prevent many "kiting" incidents.

Since 1967 I have done thousands of tows in various towplanes and have only had one kiting incident in which I was able to react quickly and release using a Schweizer hook. (The glider pilot also released just after I did and we never found the rope, a small price to pay thanks to our training and prompt reactions to the situation.) Training to fly a proper tow position is essential for the glider pilot.

Please don't write that letter to the FAA.
They would likely over-react and ground my towplanes for a year!

Hopefully they will ask you to document the number of crashes and lives lost due to the Schweizer hook against the number of aerotows made with a Schweizer hook since the 1950's.

What if we eliminated canopies and just fly open-cockpit so we won't have that distraction of making sure the canopy is locked, often resulting in loss of control by the glider pilot, early on takeoff. After all, there is no "standard" locking mechanism on canopies on the various types of gliders. Must we alert the FAA to that?

We could ask the FAA to ban the use of tail dollies while moving gliders on the ground so the dollies could never be left attached for takeoff.

We could ask the FAA to ground all gliders that do not have "automatic control hookups" (which are not fool-proof.)

While we're at it, let's require medical certification for all glider pilots as there are many documented fatalities related to medical incapacitation.. Some foreign countries require medicals as well as wearing parachutes on every flight.

Instead of to the FAA, send your letter to the SSA Government Liaison committee headed by Steve Northcraft. Find his contact info on the SSA website. Again, you will need to document the number of crashes due to the Schweizer hook on towplanes. Show him the numbers.

You stated that we live "in the land of the free", so let's remain free of sweeping mandates and discuss a sensible solution within the worldwide glider community, the smart folks who understand, and live with, the problem.

Please consider not sending that letter to the FAA.

Burt
Marfa, Texas and elsewhere.
(I am speaking for myself and not for the Soaring Safety Foundation.)

Burt, consider the following:

Page 9, Soaring Safety Foundation, Tow Pilot Training. The following is in RED:

DEPENDING ON THE INSTALLATION OF THE TOW HITCH, IT MAY BE POSSIBLE FOR THE RELEASE MECHANISM TO BECOME JAMMED DUE TO THE EXCESSIVELY HIGH POSITION OF THE GLIDER. (AMERICAN STYLE HOOK)

In addition the Advisory Circular, Date 3/3/08, AC No 43.13-2B, page 76 says:

WHEN THE GLIDER UNDER TOW OPERATES ABOVE A CERTAIN ANGLE TO THE TOW PLANE, THE RING MAY SLIDE UPWARDS ON THE HOOK CAUSING EXCESSIVE LOAD ON THE HOOK AND DIFFICULTY IN RELEASING THE TOW ROPE RING.

This confirms that the industry is well aware of the problems with this device and as one who has experienced it first hand I can attest and concur. Why is this known to this degree and has little to nothing been done. In short, the industry is not as self regulating as perhaps it should be.

I found myself 300 feet in the air, pointed at the ground, attached to a student pilot who was not reacting and I was unable to release for more reasons than just the Schweizer hook. Had the rope not broken this conversation would not be taking place. I would have been a statistic and a glider port would be facing my lawyer brother.

Recurrent training would have not been helpful with a 15 year old student on her 3rd solo. Low tow is not helpful when the towplane is just a few feet off the ground over the runway. Do you deny that there have been fatalities in this country due to this mechanism at a critical point?

I found some of your commets to be condescending. Canopies, tail dollys, medical certificates. These do not address the problem I have outlined and only serve to confuse the issue.

I take flying very seriously, I flew almost 7000 tows in 2 years and 8 months without scratching the paint or putting a wheel wrong. I enjoyed my time at SLGP and wish them nothing but the safest and best going forward.

Walt

There are reports of "unexpected release" and "failure to release" for the Tost release as well, how do the two compare? Anything mechanical is prone to failure so to say the Schweizer is worse than any other release without some type of statistical analysis is kind of meaningless.


On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 5:43:10 PM UTC-7, Walt Connelly wrote:
Before I send my letter to the FAA I'd like to ask if anyone has ever
attempted to get them to see the light and end the use of Schweizer
hooks on tow planes here in the land of the free and the home of the
brave. It is a well known fact and clearly stated in the SSA/SSF and
FAA circulars and literature that under certain conditions (the exact
condition that the tow pilot will need to release) that it can be near
impossible to release the glider. Tow planes have crashed, lives have
been lost and at the same time everyone knows that this is a dangerous
situation.

Along with the conversion to Tost hooks I'd like to see it made
mandatory that the release handles be up high, near the throttle and
quickly available to the tow pilot with adequate mechanical advantage. I
can assure you that one does not have the time to go ducking and
reaching and feeling for a handle down on the floor of a Pawnee while
the glider kites in back of you.

The idea of requiring nose hooks on all gliders does not seem to be
feasible although it has been brought up to me as something that needs
to be addressed. My understanding is that the CG hook is meant for
ground/winch launch operations, however I have probably done thousands
of CG hook aero tows with no problem. For the most part these are ships
being flown by the best and most aware pilots. I'd like more input from
experience pilots on this point.

I currently have a number of highly experienced pilots from all levels
of aviation in agreement with me and willing to help me in this cause.


If one life is saved as a result of this endeavor then it will be well
worth it.

Walt Connelly




--
Walt Connelly

Rich,

Wilbur Wright is another Sean alias.

I'll be interested to know if he's willing to deny his aliases to your face..

2C

On Thursday, May 25, 2017 at 2:55:35 PM UTC-4, Rich Owen wrote:
We don't know your name and I'm sure you won't email me to find the real story. When Walt brought up the issue we researched all factors and then made the decision to switch to Tost release systems on our towplanes. The safety of all the pilots that operate out of Seminole Lake, which includes our employees and staff, is our number one concern. Walt made a good case and we thought he was right. The Tost hooks are on back order but we expect to have them our ships within 4 weeks. We have spoken to our instructors and reviewed our procedures for losing sight of the towplanes/out of position on tow. We had the same conversation with our tow pilots. The staff here are professionals and take there job very seriously. They also read Rec Aviation Soaring and are getting frustrated that a small number of anonymous posters make comments that sully their reputation. I hope you do write the SSA so you will finally be out in the open. Our employees would like an opportunity to discuss the good we do for the sport.

Rich Owen