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#1
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Who does flight plans?
I'm kind of curious - does anyone with more than 100 hours do a flight plan,
with winds and all, before they fly cross country? Most of my planning is of the fuel stop, or occasionally detour for weather variety - but it is rare for me to include more than one or two waypoints in my "plan", and I almost never file an airway, even when I file ifr. Maybe it's because I live in the west. A typical flight plan will be Longmont - Amarillo - Austin, or if the winds are good, Longmont - Austin. What do others do? Michael |
#2
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Michael 182 wrote:
I'm kind of curious - does anyone with more than 100 hours do a flight plan, with winds and all, before they fly cross country? I plan each flight on my computer. I tend to navigate by LORAN. Given that I'm in an area with perhaps more areas of protected airspace than any other in the States, my plans tend to have a fair number of waypoints at this end of the flight. This is especially true if I'm headed towards the DC ADIZ. I tend to swag the winds because, by the time I can get a decent forecast from the FAA, it's usually too late to crank up the computer and add them to the plan -- I'm heading out the door. Of course, if I've made a particular flight before, I already have it planned. All I have to do is bring it up and check it with a current chart to make sure there's nothing new in my way. George Patterson Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry, and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing? Because she smells like a new truck. |
#3
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Here in Canada if we fly more than 25 miles from our home base we must
be on a flight plan or flight itinerary. I have no problem at all with that. i live and fly in the mountains - and if I go down I really do want people to know exactly what my route was. Downside is that it is difficult (but not impossible) to change plans halfway through the flight - it can be done - we just have to make contact via radio and advise of the change Tony C-GICE. In article , "Michael 182" wrote: I'm kind of curious - does anyone with more than 100 hours do a flight plan, with winds and all, before they fly cross country? Most of my planning is of the fuel stop, or occasionally detour for weather variety - but it is rare for me to include more than one or two waypoints in my "plan", and I almost never file an airway, even when I file ifr. Maybe it's because I live in the west. A typical flight plan will be Longmont - Amarillo - Austin, or if the winds are good, Longmont - Austin. What do others do? Michael -- Tony Roberts PP-ASEL VFR OTT Night Cessna 172H C-GICE |
#4
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On Thu, 2 Jun 2005 22:24:29 -0600, Michael 182 wrote:
I'm kind of curious - does anyone with more than 100 hours do a flight plan, with winds and all, before they fly cross country? I always do a flight plan. No, not with the ole EB6, but with DUATS or AOPA flight planner. I always print out my briefings to take with me. I still always call FSS before departure. I do this so the person at my destination will know my arrival time. For those flights that I don't have flight following or that I filed IFR, at least they know to start worrying if I am overdue by more then 20 minutes. I generally pad 10 minutes to my expected ETA for ATC deviations around JAN approach and weather considerations. Since getting my IA rating, it's either IFR or no ATC contact. I have not filed a VFR flight plan pretty much since my initial training. So far, my IFR flights, I have filed direct even though I file /A on the flight plan. The majority of my cross country trips are greater then 100 NM which I do at minimum 2 times a month. Anything shorter, I find that my commute to the airport, flight and then airport to my destination negates the time it takes to drive from point A to B anyway. Allen |
#5
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"A Lieberman" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 2 Jun 2005 22:24:29 -0600, Michael 182 wrote: I'm kind of curious - does anyone with more than 100 hours do a flight plan, with winds and all, before they fly cross country? I always do a flight plan. No, not with the ole EB6, but with DUATS or AOPA flight planner. I always print out my briefings to take with me. I still always call FSS before departure. Yeah - I always call as well. The briefings have changed my route, advised me on TFRs or given me cause not to go at all (usually ice) many times. I hate to think we may lose this service to computers someday. I really appreciate good briefers. I do this so the person at my destination will know my arrival time. For those flights that I don't have flight following or that I filed IFR, at least they know to start worrying if I am overdue by more then 20 minutes. Since getting my IA rating, it's either IFR or no ATC contact. I have not filed a VFR flight plan pretty much since my initial training. If I'm IFR I'm talking and, 99% of the time, on radar, so if something comes up ATC will know about it. If I'm VFR I'm usually listening to the iPod. No flight plans - hope the ELT is good and loud if something happens (called the Aron Ralston approach) So far, my IFR flights, I have filed direct even though I file /A on the flight plan. I thought you had to have a navigation aid in your suffix to file direct - like /G or /R. Aren't you setting yourself up for a problem filing /A and direct? The majority of my cross country trips are greater then 100 NM which I do at minimum 2 times a month. Anything shorter, I find that my commute to the airport, flight and then airport to my destination negates the time it takes to drive from point A to B anyway. Unless you are flying Longmont to Colorado Springs and looking down on the I-25 parking lot... Michael Allen |
#6
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Still do the plans the old fashioned way.
Ruler, map, piece of paper and my E6B. Most waypoints are about 10NM apart. The nice thing is that it works every time and that without power or batteries. And it is still fun to do. -Kees |
#7
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"Michael 182" wrote in message
... I'm kind of curious - does anyone with more than 100 hours do a flight plan, with winds and all, before they fly cross country? [...] I'm well past 100 hours. For me, it just depends, but it appears I always plan with more detail than you do. I always plan at least a basic route for total mileage, adjust my cruise speed for the winds to get total time and thus fuel burn. I don't correct individual legs for winds; I just look at the worst-case scenario and use that as my cruise speed for the entire trip. Winds aloft can vary so much from the forecast anyway that it's pointless to try to include them with any greater detail than that. I always carry at least an hour of fuel in reserve, and on shorter flights (two or three hours or so) it can be more than that. It's MUCH more important to then cross-check your expected fuel burn and ETA with what transpires during the flight, since the winds can change at any time anyway. The initial planning is just so you have some idea of whether the flight can be done with the fuel on board, and generally how long you can expect to be in the airplane. I find it funny that your question uses the phrase "with winds and all", as if the winds are the most important element of the flight plan. They are, IMHO, the least important during planning (though they become very important during flight). The "and all" includes a bunch of much more important things. For routes that I'm not familiar with, I do more detailed planning. This includes, of course, noting airspaces, landmarks for waypoints and general navigation purposes, terrain for inclusion in cruise altitude decision-making, possible emergency landing sites, etc. The "this is what will happen" goal is to find an efficient route from Point A to Point B, while either avoiding or anticipating any impediments along the way. The "this is what might happen" goal is to identify various things that shouldn't happen, but which might anyway, and develop strategies for dealing with them. Knowing where one might land if the headwind is greater than expected, adjusting the route for friendlier emergency landing sites (if possible), identifying alternate airports in case of things like the original destination being closed, equipment trouble, emergency bathroom break, etc. (yes, there's overlap in those various criteria...but it's not always the same overlap). One thing I'm surprised at is that you include only one or two waypoints in your plan. Perhaps you are flying the same routes over and over again, in which case I can understand that. But I only neglect waypoints like that for routes where I am completely familiar with the terrain along and around the entire route. For any route I haven't flown repeatedly and recently, I like to know some good waypoints that I'll pass every 10 to 15 minutes. Note that this is also true for the familiar routes, it's just that I've got those waypoints memorized in that case (and I know roughly what time during the flight I should expect to see them). I have a reasonably reliable Loran in my airplane, and so I admit I do slack a bit on the groundspeed calculations while enroute. However, I need to have the waypoints for backup in case the Loran goes south, and even with the Loran, on longer flights I am still double-checking my groundspeed with waypoints every 30-60 minutes. In addition, the Loran is much better with groundspeed than it is with absolute position, and I'm not always flying a route for which the Loran has waypoints along my route in its database anyway. So I need the waypoints for off-airway navigation (both "where" and "when"). Note that having a Loran (or even IFR-certified GPS) doesn't obviate the need for proper planning. Even if the equipment was 100% reliable, you still need to actually inspect the route for the details along the way, to avoid obstacles and so that you can double-check your navigation equipment (even the GPS, which is supposed to tell you when it's lying, can theoretically go wrong without you knowing...you don't want to be the first pilot that happens to, and not know it when it's happening ). But on top of all that, you need a backup plan in case you lose your nav equipment for any reason (electronics get fried, electrical failure, bird hits your antenna, whatever). I readily admit to not filling out a full "flight log", and definitely abbreviating my planning from what's typically required for FAA testing. But much of the same detail needs to go into the actual planning, IMHO, even if it doesn't get written down. As for the computerized planning, well...probably if I didn't spend so much time with computers already, I'd be all over that. But my life already revolves around them as it is. Much of my enjoyment of flying comes from the somewhat anachronistic aspects of it, and I actually like spreading the charts out on the floor and measuring distances with my plotter. It does take longer, that's for sure. But for me, it's all part of the whole experience. Pete |
#8
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Many rental companies REQUIRE you to file a flight plan if yoiu're going more
than 50nm from their base. This is a bit of an inconvenience, as it cuts your liberty to fly where you want. I am all for flight plans, flight following, continuous radio contact and business-like conduct for most flights, even VFR - but when the weather's beautiful, and you're only going 100nm or so, of route that you know like the back of your hand, it's a bit of a shame not to be able to take your time, check something out, show someone who's never been up before something special - even land somewhere else if you feel like it. Under these conditions, the only use for a flight plan is to assist SAR. Flight following is just as good - and probably better. This is a kink in the rental system today. G Faris |
#9
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"Peter Duniho" wrote in message ... "Michael 182" wrote in message ... I'm kind of curious - does anyone with more than 100 hours do a flight plan, with winds and all, before they fly cross country? [...] I'm well past 100 hours. For me, it just depends, but it appears I always plan with more detail than you do. I always plan at least a basic route for total mileage, adjust my cruise speed for the winds to get total time and thus fuel burn. snip I always carry at least an hour of fuel in reserve, and on shorter flights (two or three hours or so) it can be more than that. I agree, I just don't actively plan for this. I usually take off with a full tank. I have a Shadin to measure fuel flow, which I know from experience is very accurate. Since I also have a Garmin 430 I know, pretty accutaely, my time to destination. I have a backup Pilot III in the glove box if I need it. If all of this fails (a very low probability - never happened in over 1200 hours in this plane), I can tune in VORs, figure out where I am, and find an airport. It's MUCH more important to then cross-check your expected fuel burn and ETA with what transpires during the flight, since the winds can change at any time anyway. I never go below 1.5 hours in reserve. All of this can easily be handled in flight, with very minimal ground planning. For routes that I'm not familiar with, I do more detailed planning. This includes, of course, noting airspaces, landmarks for waypoints and general navigation purposes, terrain for inclusion in cruise altitude decision-making, possible emergency landing sites, etc. Come on, you plan for emergency landing spots on a long cross country? No way - you might generally say "I'm not flying across the Rockies in IMC, but beyond that, how can you plan for emergency landing spots? In any case, I'm generally just buying IFR charts - I have no idea of the terrain beyond some general altitude information. The "this is what will happen" goal is to find an efficient route from Point A to Point B, while either avoiding or anticipating any impediments along the way. The "this is what might happen" goal is to identify various things that shouldn't happen, but which might anyway, and develop strategies for dealing with them. Knowing where one might land if the headwind is greater than expected, adjusting the route for friendlier emergency landing sites (if possible), identifying alternate airports in case of things like the original destination being closed, equipment trouble, emergency bathroom break, etc. (yes, there's overlap in those various criteria...but it's not always the same overlap). Once again, all of this is easily done in the air. ... Hmmm, I'm hungry. What airports are within 50 miles? Oh yeah - there's one. Do they have a restaurant? (Open the Flight Guide... ) "Albuquerque Center, Skylane 123 is changing my destination and landing at Santa Fe..." I have a reasonably reliable Loran in my airplane, and so I admit I do slack a bit on the groundspeed calculations while enroute. However, I need to have the waypoints for backup in case the Loran goes south, and even with the Loran, on longer flights I am still double-checking my groundspeed with waypoints every 30-60 minutes. Why? If you are in the air for two hours, and you only have three hours fuel, get on the ground and refuel. What difference does continually checking waypoints make? Note that having a Loran (or even IFR-certified GPS) doesn't obviate the need for proper planning. Even if the equipment was 100% reliable, you still need to actually inspect the route for the details along the way, to avoid obstacles and so that you can double-check your navigation equipment (even the GPS, which is supposed to tell you when it's lying, can theoretically go wrong without you knowing... I do double check it occasionally, out of boredom on some flights - but how can it "theoretically go wrong without you knowing"? I know about RAIM errors - they have totaled maybe 5 minutes in the past four years of flying, and even during the errors the navigation was accurate. But, once again, even if the GPS miraculously failed, and the hand held backup failed, and the VOR's (both of them) failed, and the radio died (so I couldn't get vectors) - I rarely fly more than 30 minutes anywhere in the US without seeing an airport, or at least a private ranch strip. Much of my enjoyment of flying comes from the somewhat anachronistic aspects of it, and I actually like spreading the charts out on the floor and measuring distances with my plotter. It does take longer, that's for sure. But for me, it's all part of the whole experience. Now this I fully appreciate - I rarely do it, but I can see why it is appealing to some people. I don't want to sound cavalier about flying. I am fanatical about maintenance on my plane. I will do extensive planning for a go-no go decision based on weather. I get an IPC at least once a year, even if I am current. But it seems to me that for a reasonably high performance plane the geography of planning has, for the most part, been displaced by technology. Michael |
#10
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"Michael 182" wrote in message
... I'm kind of curious - does anyone with more than 100 hours do a flight plan, with winds and all, before they fly cross country? Most of my planning is of the fuel stop, or occasionally detour for weather variety - but it is rare for me to include more than one or two waypoints in my "plan", and I almost never file an airway, even when I file ifr. Maybe it's because I live in the west. A typical flight plan will be Longmont - Amarillo - Austin, or if the winds are good, Longmont - Austin. What do others do? I plan in AOPA flight planner, and since I got my IFR rating I always file IFR when I'm going somewhere far (i.e. more than 50 miles or so). I usually don't bother on filing VFR flight plans, as I always have a tough time talking to FSS to open it, and then I might forget to close it. The flight planner does the winds, and I try to fly on airways if they don't take me too much out of the way (if they do, I'll just do direct on the GPS); in that way if the GPS has a problem it would be less of a hazzle. I don't select visual checkpoints or plan for landing areas beforehand, but while I'm flying I am taking a look at the VFR charts, looking for airports (if VMC) and in general always try to know exactly where I'm at in the VFR chart. I'll look for emergency landing spots ocasionally as well. I should do that a little more often. Fuel is usually not a problem for me. I also keep it at 1.5 hours reserve, and my last crosscountries have not required fuel stops (I don't go that far and I got 6 hours of fuel) |
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