If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Why an NDB approach with a miss to an intersection?
What's the point of the CVO NDB 17? It's an off-airport NDB approach
to a runway that also has ILS, VOR and GPS approaches, all with lower minimums. Like all but one other approach (a GPS approach from the south) it has a missed approach that takes you to an intersection hold about 9 miles to the east. So if all you have is an NDB, you still can't shoot this approach without alternate missed instructions. Why wouldn't they just put the missed approach hold at the NDB? -- Ben Jackson http://www.ben.com/ |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
|
#3
|
|||
|
|||
In article ,
ArtP wrote: That lightning bolt to SHEDD says the controller can identify it. How do you know that's what it means? I don't doubt you, just can't find the info/definition on the lightning bolt symbol. -- Dale L. Falk There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing around with airplanes. http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 17:48:47 -0900, Dale wrote:
In article , ArtP wrote: That lightning bolt to SHEDD says the controller can identify it. How do you know that's what it means? I don't doubt you, just can't find the info/definition on the lightning bolt symbol. I suspect that piece of trivia is buried somewhere in a King course. But if you look at an approach plate labeled RADAR REQUIRED (BWI ILS 28), you will only see that symbol associated with the word "RADAR". The only time I have seen that symbol not accompanied by the word "RADAR" is on approaches which are legal with only an NDB or single VOR. On these the symbol is always associated with an intersection that would require DME or a second VOR to identify. |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
"ArtP" wrote in message
... On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 17:48:47 -0900, Dale wrote: In article , ArtP wrote: That lightning bolt to SHEDD says the controller can identify it. So it is perfectly legal to fly the approach with just an NDB as long as you are in radio contact with ATC. How do you know that's what it means? I don't doubt you, just can't find the info/definition on the lightning bolt symbol. I suspect that piece of trivia is buried somewhere in a King course. But if you look at an approach plate labeled RADAR REQUIRED (BWI ILS 28), you will only see that symbol associated with the word "RADAR". Not at all. Look at BED ILS 29--radar required, and JAYSE and MORIS have the jagged symbol, but no "RADAR" label. With all due respect, it's pretty dangerous to assign operational significance to an approach-chart symbol by guesswork or by suspected King trivia, if the symbol doesn't appear in the legend for the chart. There's really nothing to indicate that the jagged symbol is anything other than an arrow pointing from the name to the fix. --Gary |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
"ArtP" wrote in message
... On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 17:48:47 -0900, Dale wrote: In article , ArtP wrote: That lightning bolt to SHEDD says the controller can identify it. So it is perfectly legal to fly the approach with just an NDB as long as you are in radio contact with ATC. How do you know that's what it means? I don't doubt you, just can't find the info/definition on the lightning bolt symbol. I suspect that piece of trivia is buried somewhere in a King course. But if you look at an approach plate labeled RADAR REQUIRED (BWI ILS 28), you will only see that symbol associated with the word "RADAR". Not at all. BED ILS 29, for example, is a radar-required approach with the jagged symbol at JAYSE and MORIS, but there's no "RADAR" label at those fixes. With all due respect, it's dangerous to attribute operational significance to an approach-chart symbol by guesswork or by suspected King trivia, if the symbol does not appear in the legend for the chart. There's no indication that a jagged line in the plan view does anything other than connect the name to the fix. --Gary |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
ArtP wrote: I suspect that piece of trivia is buried somewhere in a King course. But if you look at an approach plate labeled RADAR REQUIRED (BWI ILS 28), you will only see that symbol associated with the word "RADAR". The only time I have seen that symbol not accompanied by the word "RADAR" is on approaches which are legal with only an NDB or single VOR. On these the symbol is always associated with an intersection that would require DME or a second VOR to identify. I suspect it is some chart makers way of tagging the name to the fix. |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
"ArtP" wrote in message ... That lightning bolt to SHEDD says the controller can identify it. So it is perfectly legal to fly the approach with just an NDB as long as you are in radio contact with ATC. The lightning bolt at SHEDD says nothing about ATC. If you examine the IAPs for OSH you'll find that same symbol used at GRATE and PINKY, which serve as the missed approach holding points for most of the procedures there. Neither of those fixes are depicted on the video map. If that symbol had any specific meaning one would expect to find it in the legend, but it's not there. It appears it serves only to connect the fix with it's associated name and data. |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Ben Jackson wrote: What's the point of the CVO NDB 17? It's an off-airport NDB approach to a runway that also has ILS, VOR and GPS approaches, all with lower minimums. Like all but one other approach (a GPS approach from the south) it has a missed approach that takes you to an intersection hold about 9 miles to the east. So if all you have is an NDB, you still can't shoot this approach without alternate missed instructions. Why wouldn't they just put the missed approach hold at the NDB? Your points are well taken. Sometimes, when the FAA designs backup for backup approaches they don't think it all through. If the CVO VOR is OTS you are, indeed, SOL. Alternate missed approaches (if published for ATC) or radar vector missed approaches, are not supposed to be used before you're with approach control. But, then again, only 'da Shadow really know. |
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Changes to Aircraft Approach Categories?! | skyliner | Instrument Flight Rules | 10 | February 9th 04 08:55 PM |
Completing the Non-precision approach as a Visual Approach | John Clonts | Instrument Flight Rules | 45 | November 20th 03 05:20 AM |
DME req'd on ILS (not ILS-DME) approach? | Don Faulkner | Instrument Flight Rules | 13 | October 7th 03 03:54 AM |
Which of these approaches is loggable? | Paul Tomblin | Instrument Flight Rules | 26 | August 16th 03 05:22 PM |
IR checkride story! | Guy Elden Jr. | Instrument Flight Rules | 16 | August 1st 03 09:03 PM |