ELT's are a joke

"ISoar" wrote in message
...
Is a APRS (Automatic Postition Reporting System) enabled ham radio a
reasonable substitute?

Intro: http://nwaprs.org/downloads/WhatIsAPRS.pdf

Way more info: http://web.usna.navy.mil/~bruninga/aprs.html

Probably not for SAR since PLT's work fine BUT what a great idea for team
flying.

I note that Winpilot can plot team members position on the moving map
display. Link members of the team with APRS and feed the data to Winpilot
and each could see the position of the others.

Bill Daniels

Hi Gang, me again.
Let's be realistic about ELT's. Automatic activation in a crash situation has
got to have a very low sucess probability. The ship and therefore the ELT
antenna, may very well be upside down. The ELT may be damaged in the crash. At
best, we can't expect a search plane on scene in anything less than 24 hours.

So what's our best way to communicate a distress signal? I would think it's our
aircraft radio. Transmit on 123.3 and 123.5 to your buddies or anyone who
answers. The local soaring operation should send out a search plane in the
evening. In a contest, you can expect a search to be activated about 7:30 in
the evening. I think it would be a good idea to carry a hand-held radio, as a
back-up. If your aircraft radio is functioning (transmit light on) but the
antenna lead is broken, then I would pull out as much wire (RG-58) as I could
and strip away 24 inches of the outside (grounding) shield. Then get your new
antenna as high as possible. The survivor that started this thread, could have
done this and then tied the end of his antenna to a parachute shroud line and
the other end to a stone. Toss the rock over a tree branch and start calling,
MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY on all frequencies that might have listeners. Don't
forget about 121.5 (emergency freq) To conserve your battery, the best time to
brodcast is 15 to 18 and 45 to 48 minutes after the hour. Any SAR forces will
be listening at these times.

I cary a small survival kit with 2 quarts of bottled water in my ship, but what
if I bailout? So, I just added several book matches and a very thin pocket
knife to my parachute inspection pouch holder. With that parachute, a knife and
matches, I feel I would have a fighting chance.

Now, lets all conduct our soaring activities in a manor that doesn't require
any of the above.
JJ Sinclair

http://www.gliderforum.com/thread-vi...id=885&posts=1

Al



"JJ Sinclair" wrote in message
...
Hi Gang, me again.
Let's be realistic about ELT's. Automatic activation in a crash situation
has
got to have a very low sucess probability. The ship and therefore the ELT
antenna, may very well be upside down. The ELT may be damaged in the
crash. At
best, we can't expect a search plane on scene in anything less than 24
hours.

So what's our best way to communicate a distress signal? I would think
it's our
aircraft radio. Transmit on 123.3 and 123.5 to your buddies or anyone who
answers. The local soaring operation should send out a search plane in the
evening. In a contest, you can expect a search to be activated about 7:30
in
the evening. I think it would be a good idea to carry a hand-held radio,
as a
back-up. If your aircraft radio is functioning (transmit light on) but the
antenna lead is broken, then I would pull out as much wire (RG-58) as I
could
and strip away 24 inches of the outside (grounding) shield. Then get your
new
antenna as high as possible. The survivor that started this thread, could
have
done this and then tied the end of his antenna to a parachute shroud line
and
the other end to a stone. Toss the rock over a tree branch and start
calling,
MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY on all frequencies that might have listeners. Don't
forget about 121.5 (emergency freq) To conserve your battery, the best
time to
brodcast is 15 to 18 and 45 to 48 minutes after the hour. Any SAR forces
will
be listening at these times.

I cary a small survival kit with 2 quarts of bottled water in my ship, but
what
if I bailout? So, I just added several book matches and a very thin pocket
knife to my parachute inspection pouch holder. With that parachute, a
knife and
matches, I feel I would have a fighting chance.

Now, lets all conduct our soaring activities in a manor that doesn't
require
any of the above.
JJ Sinclair

JJ Sinclair wrote:
Hi Gang, me again.
Let's be realistic about ELT's. Automatic activation in a crash situation has
got to have a very low sucess probability. The ship and therefore the ELT
antenna, may very well be upside down. The ELT may be damaged in the crash. At
best, we can't expect a search plane on scene in anything less than 24 hours.

At best, how about less than an hour? Happened to a friend of mine when
he crashed his glider. It wasn't a search plane, but an officer on the
ground sent to check on the ELT signal. It can be much longer, of course.

So what's our best way to communicate a distress signal? I would think it's our
aircraft radio.

If the glider is upside down, or the crash was so severe the ELT was
damaged, it seems this is unlikely to be successful, because the radio,
batteries, wiring, and antenna will be probably be damaged. An ELT is
much more rugged than the normal VHF radio system. An ELT would've still
functioned in the crash near Hemet, while the glider radio didn't. Had
the crash disabled the pilot, it wouldn't matter if the VHF radio still
worked, while the ELT would've activated.

These considerations, plus the ability to fly my motorglider when no
other glider pilots are flying, and the ability to fly out of range of
my crew radio, led me to install an ELT. An ELT is not perfect, but it's
not expensive over it's lifetime of, say, 15 years: $15-$30/year for the
unit including battery changes.

JJ's comments for coping with the situation (no ELT, no cell phone
contact, no portable VHF) make good sense, however. I would add a signal
mirror to his parachute pack.

Transmit on 123.3 and 123.5 to your buddies or anyone who
answers. The local soaring operation should send out a search plane in the
evening. In a contest, you can expect a search to be activated about 7:30 in
the evening. I think it would be a good idea to carry a hand-held radio, as a
back-up. If your aircraft radio is functioning (transmit light on) but the
antenna lead is broken, then I would pull out as much wire (RG-58) as I could
and strip away 24 inches of the outside (grounding) shield. Then get your new
antenna as high as possible. The survivor that started this thread, could have
done this and then tied the end of his antenna to a parachute shroud line and
the other end to a stone. Toss the rock over a tree branch and start calling,
MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY on all frequencies that might have listeners. Don't
forget about 121.5 (emergency freq) To conserve your battery, the best time to
brodcast is 15 to 18 and 45 to 48 minutes after the hour. Any SAR forces will
be listening at these times.

I cary a small survival kit with 2 quarts of bottled water in my ship, but what
if I bailout? So, I just added several book matches and a very thin pocket
knife to my parachute inspection pouch holder. With that parachute, a knife and
matches, I feel I would have a fighting chance.

Now, lets all conduct our soaring activities in a manor that doesn't require
any of the above.
JJ Sinclair

try doing it in the frence alpes you plonker

Eric wrote the ability to fly my motorglider when no
other glider pilots are flying,

Eric,
Wasn't that the subject of a recent rules change proposal?
:)

JJ Sinclair

"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message
...

........... These considerations, plus the ability to fly my motorglider
when no
other glider pilots are flying, ............


Hey Eric, in a previous thread with JJ, I thought that you said that you
did not do that!
(Just couldn't resist)
Duane

Duane Eisenbeiss wrote:

"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message
...

........... These considerations, plus the ability to fly my motorglider

when no

other glider pilots are flying, ............


Hey Eric, in a previous thread with JJ, I thought that you said that you
did not do that!
(Just couldn't resist)

Never said that! I often fly during the week, which means most pilots
aren't even around, except for the few other retired motorglider pilots.
So, this often means I'm the only glider pilot flying.

Note that I didn't say "I often fly when it's unsoarable". It's 2.5
times more likely to be soarable during the week....
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Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

ISoar wrote:

Is a APRS (Automatic Postition Reporting System) enabled ham radio a
reasonable substitute?

Intro: http://nwaprs.org/downloads/WhatIsAPRS.pdf

Way more info: http://web.usna.navy.mil/~bruninga/aprs.html


An experimentation was done in my club with a such system, not as
an emergency locator, but as a continuous position reporting
system, and the experimentation was susccesful. It could be better
than an emergency locator, since this last system, unless very resilient
and so expensive, may be destroyed in a crash, while a permanent
reporting system gives a last known position before the crash.
However the reason for which we didn't adopt this system for all
gliders in the club was the lack of available frequency. The both
way we tried it were both illegal, one of them was using the
radio of the glider on the airfield frequency, the other one was
using a couple of talkie-walkies, allowed only for ground to ground
transmission. See http://bipspevv.free.fr (sorry only in French).

Buck Wild wrote:
I've said it before, though I haven't done an extensive web search on
it,
There's gotta be an elt available that sends one short burst with your
exact GPS location to a satalite, instead of having the boy scouts try
to hunt down an AM signal with a directional antenna,

Does ATC radar log the radar positions of VFR traffic squawking 1200? I
know they do it for codes assigned to airliners. If they did, it might
provide a way to locate crashed glider that was using a transponder.

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-----
Replace "SPAM" with "charter" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA