Looking at an old Ercoupe today...

So three (of our original six) members are continuing down the road to
finding an old, LSA-compliant airplane. The other three dropped out
because they didn't like the notion of a "family membership" that would
allow multiple pilots on a single club membership. (Not surprisingly, those
were the three single or single-pilot family folks!)

The three remaining partners already own larger aircraft, and have similar
goals:

1. We want something cheap(er) and more fun to fly
2. We want something our kids/spouses can afford to fly
3. We want an LSA in case we lose our medicals.
4. We like grass-roots aviation. No glass panels or IFR -- just low, slow,
and fun.

One of our original members was an Ercoupe fanatic, which got us looking in
that direction. After exploring those old birds, we all found them to
be...cool. Compared to many "legacy LSAs" (I.E.: Taylorcraft, Champs,
etc.) the Ercoupe is more modern, with tricycle gear and metal
construction -- while at the same time (when compared to modern aircraft) it
is quaint and refreshingly simple.

So, we're bringing one into the shop today, to have a closer look-see. (One
of the partners is my A&P, a guy with 45 years of wrenching experience.)
Anyone care to weigh in on the Ercoupe? Here are the particulars:

- 1946 Model 416-C
- 85 HP
- 400 SMOH
- Out of annual for 1 year (the owner has another plane, and a very busy
work schedule; he's sort of lost interest in the plane)
- Flown 30 hours since 2000
- Sat for 15 years prior to 2000 (owned by current owner's uncle)
- All-metal wings (all ADs complied with)
- New upholstery/interior
- Luggage compartment enlargement STC
- New yokes
- New shock donuts
- New tires
- Many new instruments/new panel
- Garmin 295 comes with plane

The radios are...junk. For all intents and purposes, we're considering the
radios to be non-existent. There is a good, newly installed intercom.

Current owner says he's got $28K invested. He's talking $21K. We're
thinking (pending inspection) maybe it's worth $18K.

Any Ercoupe experts out there? Whuddya think?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote

The three remaining partners already own larger aircraft, and have similar
goals:

1. We want something cheap(er) and more fun to fly
2. We want something our kids/spouses can afford to fly
3. We want an LSA in case we lose our medicals.
4. We like grass-roots aviation. No glass panels or IFR -- just low,
slow,
and fun.

You guys might want to look into flying sailplanes too. It's hard to beat
for the shear joy of being up in the air and making the most out of what
mother nature has in store for you on any particular day.

It can be very inexpensive - you can fly for hours on a $35 tow. It is
exciting and challenging, especially when you start to go out on cross
countries. And, the transition from power to glider is straightforward and
pretty easy really. No written and no medical required.

Ownership costs are low as well. I own a 38:1 glass ship and my most recent
annual was $200. There are no tiedown or hangar fees since you can take
your sailplane home with you in its trailer at the end of each day.

I had my own preconceived notions about what flying sailplanes was all about
for years, and once I actually tried it I found out I was totally wrong.

Of course, you can't use it for transportation or head out for your $500
hamburger like you can in a power plane. But, for recreational flying it's
hard to beat. I think my wife enjoys soaring above the countryside in a
sailplane more than she does flying power, even the Cub (but it's a close
second).

Anyway, food for thought.

Bruce

On 2008-05-15, Jay Honeck wrote:
Any Ercoupe experts out there? Whuddya think?

I'm not an Ercoupe expert...but I'd recommend looking VERY closely at the
spars, which are reported to have serious problems with intergranular
corrosion. Aside from that, it's probably a good airplane.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
newskYWj.110933$TT4.34154@attbi_s22...


Current owner says he's got $28K invested. He's talking $21K. We're
thinking (pending inspection) maybe it's worth $18K.

Any Ercoupe experts out there? Whuddya think?

You should probably offer him the $18K before the inspection, pending the
outcome. He may think he's already giving you $7K and will balk at another
$3K. I did when something similar happened to me.

"BDS" wrote:
You guys might want to look into flying sailplanes too. It's hard to beat
for the shear joy of being up in the air and making the most out of what
mother nature has in store for you on any particular day.

It can be very inexpensive - you can fly for hours on a $35 tow.

That's *if* you own your own sailplane.
Where I flew, it was $35 for the tow (minimum), plus $X/hr for rental of
the sailplane.

It is
exciting and challenging, especially when you start to go out on cross
countries. And, the transition from power to glider is straightforward and
pretty easy really. No written and no medical required.

Ownership costs are low as well. I own a 38:1 glass ship and my most recent
annual was $200. There are no tiedown or hangar fees since you can take
your sailplane home with you in its trailer at the end of each day.

You didn't say how much you paid for the 38:1 glass ship!

And it should be mentioned that taking it home with you in the trailer
vs. having a tiedown/hangar means having help and time to take the wings
off and put them back on each time. I've watched this...they don't go
together as quickly as Lego.

I had my own preconceived notions about what flying sailplanes was all about
for years, and once I actually tried it I found out I was totally wrong.

Of course, you can't use it for transportation or head out for your $500
hamburger like you can in a power plane. But, for recreational flying it's
hard to beat. I think my wife enjoys soaring above the countryside in a
sailplane more than she does flying power, even the Cub (but it's a close
second).

Anyway, food for thought.

They are unique and wonderful, quiet, less manic than airplanes. But
there is a downside (depending on how you view it). You can't just go to
the airport, gas up your plane, take off and go from Point-A to Point-B.
You need a way to be launched (towplane/auto tow/winch), at least one or
two other people not going with you to help launch you, and if there
isn't any lift, you won't be going far.

I wouldn't describe it as "very inexpensive", either! It can go either
way. Sometimes, "inexpensive" is hardly the case, with paying for the
tow and the minimum hourly rental for what ends up being a 20-minute
flight (approximate duration of a tow to 3000 feet with no lift). When
learning and doing several "pattern tows" in a row, it can get downright
expensive very quickly.

Shirl (licensed in gliders before airplanes)

Jay Honeck wrote:

Current owner says he's got $28K invested. He's talking $21K. We're
thinking (pending inspection) maybe it's worth $18K.

Any Ercoupe experts out there? Whuddya think?

Not an Ercoupe expert but I heard that the LSA complaint C models have
seen a bump in value over the last few years as should be expected.

You know though with the three of you working on it you could probably
build a brand new 601XL from a quick build kit during the summer. for
about the same price.

Jay Honeck wrote:

- Luggage compartment enlargement STC

One other thing I noticed. Is that STC the same one that increased the
MGW of the plane? If so it screws up the LSA compliance.

On May 15, 9:07 am, "Jay Honeck" wrote:

- All-metal wings (all ADs complied with)

I've seen airplanes with a list of "ADs complied with" and on
further investigation I find that many were missed and others not done
properly. The Ercoupe has its share of ADs and some of them are pretty
serious.

Go here and type "Ercoupe" into the Search line for a list:
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Gu...e?OpenFrameSet

That'll get you plenty of stuff to check on the airplane and also
see if they're in the records as having been done. As well, remember
that the engine and various accessories like fuel pumps, carbs,
magnetos and so forth all might have ADs against them. Some of this
stuff can come as an expensive surprise after purchase.

Dan

"Shirl" wrote

It can be very inexpensive - you can fly for hours on a $35 tow.

That's *if* you own your own sailplane.
Where I flew, it was $35 for the tow (minimum), plus $X/hr for rental of
the sailplane.

You're right, it depends on where you fly. I happen to own my sailplane,
but the club I'm in also owns 5 various single and 2-place ships and members
use them at no charge beyond annual dues. We also provide flight
instruction to club members at no charge. Dues in this club are $800 to
$1,300 a year depending on the type of membership you have.

You didn't say how much you paid for the 38:1 glass ship!

There are ships in this class with trailers for around $16k and up. Mine
was around $19k when I bought it a few years ago.

And it should be mentioned that taking it home with you in the trailer
vs. having a tiedown/hangar means having help and time to take the wings
off and put them back on each time. I've watched this...they don't go
together as quickly as Lego.

I made a one man rig for mine so that I can rig and de-rig it by myself in
about 30 minutes. Some days it takes 45 minutes and a few choice cuss
words.

They are unique and wonderful, quiet, less manic than airplanes. But
there is a downside (depending on how you view it). You can't just go to
the airport, gas up your plane, take off and go from Point-A to Point-B.
You need a way to be launched (towplane/auto tow/winch), at least one or
two other people not going with you to help launch you, and if there
isn't any lift, you won't be going far.

Yes, very true.

I wouldn't describe it as "very inexpensive", either! It can go either
way. Sometimes, "inexpensive" is hardly the case, with paying for the
tow and the minimum hourly rental for what ends up being a 20-minute
flight (approximate duration of a tow to 3000 feet with no lift). When
learning and doing several "pattern tows" in a row, it can get downright
expensive very quickly.

Yes, when you're depending on finding lift to stay up there are no
guarantees. However, you can and will increase the odds of your success
with experience and knowing when to launch and when not to. Still, there
are no guarantees since finding and successfully working lift is not as easy
as turning a key. But then, that's the fun of it!

Shirl (licensed in gliders before airplanes)

Hope you still get out to enjoy a glider flight once in awhile!

Bruce

Shirl:
Where I flew, it was $35 for the tow (minimum), plus $X/hr
for rental of the sailplane.

"BDS" wrote:
You're right, it depends on where you fly. I happen to own my sailplane,
but the club I'm in also owns 5 various single and 2-place ships and members
use them at no charge beyond annual dues. We also provide flight
instruction to club members at no charge. Dues in this club are $800 to
$1,300 a year depending on the type of membership you have.

I think more sailports operate as clubs now. The one I was at did not.
It was $35/tow (I think first 1000 feet?), plus so much per extra
thousand feet. Hourly sailplane rental was in addition to that. And we
did not get flight instruction at no charge -- it was $40/hr at the
time. NOTHING was free, nor did anyone expect it to be; but my point was
that it surely did add up fast unless you were lucky enough to get
something like 1.5 hrs from the first 1500-ft tow in a 1-26, which would
end up being under $60 total. But even on good days, it could take more
than one tow to get in a good flight.

You didn't say how much you paid for the 38:1 glass ship!

There are ships in this class with trailers for around $16k and up. Mine
was around $19k when I bought it a few years ago.

Okay...the glass ships I'd seen were in the $75K range, which to me
seems like a lot considering all the other stuff that is needed before
you even get in the air.

And it should be mentioned that taking it home with you in the trailer
vs. having a tiedown/hangar means having help and time to take the wings
off and put them back on each time. I've watched this...they don't go
together as quickly as Lego.

I made a one man rig for mine so that I can rig and de-rig it by myself in
about 30 minutes. Some days it takes 45 minutes and a few choice cuss
words.

:-) That's not bad. But it's still a consideration that people should
be aware of.

I wouldn't describe it as "very inexpensive", either! It can go either
way. Sometimes, "inexpensive" is hardly the case, with paying for the
tow and the minimum hourly rental for what ends up being a 20-minute
flight (approximate duration of a tow to 3000 feet with no lift). When
learning and doing several "pattern tows" in a row, it can get downright
expensive very quickly.

Yes, when you're depending on finding lift to stay up there are no
guarantees. However, you can and will increase the odds of your
success with experience and knowing when to launch and when not to.

Agreed. I was always amazed at how the "veterans" knew exactly when and
when NOT to go! I always wanted to fly in the morning, and they kept
telling me, "No, it's not 'puddin' yet!" (meaning it was too early in
the day to be "bubbling" up). Waiting an additional 20 minutes could
make all the difference in staying up for an hour or two or coming right
back down.

Still, there are no guarantees since finding and successfully
working lift is not as easy as turning a key. But then, that's
the fun of it!

I know! I agree. It's like a scavenger hunt, looking for something you
can't see, and you can't help but wear a huge smile when you find it! I
love it. It really is all about the enjoyment of flying, huh?

Shirl (licensed in gliders before airplanes)

Hope you still get out to enjoy a glider flight once in awhile!

Not as much as I'd like to. I'm a little spoiled by being able wake up
early and just go fly. Hard to stay motivated when you're out of the
habit of waiting around until 2:30 or 3:00 pm. But ... there's nothing
quite like those few seconds just after you release from the tow and it
gets so quiet and peaceful, being at 11,000 feet with the Vario still on
the rise, and ... no possibility of engine failure!
;-)

Shirl