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#1
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T-6 accident
This is the one I mean to post Dudley. Was having some trouble with Youtube
due to a plug-in I think.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7eYhlm9FJ8 |
#2
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T-6 accident
On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 08:12:31 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
This is the one I mean to post Dudley. Was having some trouble with Youtube due to a plug-in I think.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7eYhlm9FJ8 Can you assess the problem? -- Remove numbers for gmail and for God's sake it ain't "gee" either! |
#3
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T-6 accident
WJRFlyBoy wrote in
: On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 08:12:31 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip wrote: This is the one I mean to post Dudley. Was having some trouble with Youtube due to a plug-in I think.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7eYhlm9FJ8 Can you assess the problem? What, with my browser or the accident? The T-6 passed 90 deg (and even earlier) with his nose below the horizon. He could have rolled back and saved it at that point, but he continued around in the now awkward position of having to prevent further altitude loss with excessive neg G which slowed him considerably and further skewed the airplane's. The exit half was a classic dish. Everybody does 'em sometimes.... Trick is to recognise a roll that's going to produce one early enough to abandon it. This guy didn't. The You tube extension add-on, I have no idea, but it's made a mess out of my youtube fun! Bertie |
#4
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T-6 accident
"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message ... This is the one I mean to post Dudley. Was having some trouble with Youtube due to a plug-in I think.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7eYhlm9FJ8 What is the deal with the first crash shown in this video? Overstressed the aircraft and it came apart? Very strange. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=CnN9iIvVVto |
#5
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T-6 accident
"Darkwing" theducksmailATyahoo.com wrote in
: "Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message ... This is the one I mean to post Dudley. Was having some trouble with Youtube due to a plug-in I think.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7eYhlm9FJ8 What is the deal with the first crash shown in this video? Overstressed the aircraft and it came apart? Very strange. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=CnN9iIvVVto Can't access it at the moment. Is it the one where the Partenavia loses both wings at the same time? There was a reference to an accident report in which th evideo was analised and the airplane was estimated to be traveling at 220 kts, 25 over red line, and the rate of rotation would have given a loading of over 8. Plenty to pull most airplanes apart instantly. Bertie |
#6
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T-6 accident
"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message .. . "Darkwing" theducksmailATyahoo.com wrote in : "Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message ... This is the one I mean to post Dudley. Was having some trouble with Youtube due to a plug-in I think.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7eYhlm9FJ8 What is the deal with the first crash shown in this video? Overstressed the aircraft and it came apart? Very strange. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=CnN9iIvVVto Can't access it at the moment. Is it the one where the Partenavia loses both wings at the same time? There was a reference to an accident report in which th evideo was analised and the airplane was estimated to be traveling at 220 kts, 25 over red line, and the rate of rotation would have given a loading of over 8. Plenty to pull most airplanes apart instantly. Bertie No it is an F14 doing a high speed pass just above the deck, then it banks and a just explodes. It is kind if surreal like a Hollywood plane crash. |
#7
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T-6 accident
"Darkwing" theducksmailATyahoo.com wrote in
: "Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message ... This is the one I mean to post Dudley. Was having some trouble with Youtube due to a plug-in I think.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7eYhlm9FJ8 What is the deal with the first crash shown in this video? Overstressed the aircraft and it came apart? Very strange. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=CnN9iIvVVto Got it now. I have no idea. Doesn't look like he was doing anything wrong. Maybe a mechanical malfunction. Catastrophic engine failure, maybe. Should be something somewhere about it if oyu look around. Bertie |
#8
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T-6 accident
"Darkwing" theducksmailATyahoo.com wrote in
: "Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message .. . "Darkwing" theducksmailATyahoo.com wrote in : "Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message ... This is the one I mean to post Dudley. Was having some trouble with Youtube due to a plug-in I think.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7eYhlm9FJ8 What is the deal with the first crash shown in this video? Overstressed the aircraft and it came apart? Very strange. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=CnN9iIvVVto Can't access it at the moment. Is it the one where the Partenavia loses both wings at the same time? There was a reference to an accident report in which th evideo was analised and the airplane was estimated to be traveling at 220 kts, 25 over red line, and the rate of rotation would have given a loading of over 8. Plenty to pull most airplanes apart instantly. Bertie No it is an F14 doing a high speed pass just above the deck, then it banks and a just explodes. It is kind if surreal like a Hollywood plane crash. Yeah, found it after. Maybve it's just that, someone's idea of a joke.. Bertie |
#9
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T-6 accident
On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 13:51:53 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote: WJRFlyBoy wrote in : On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 08:12:31 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip wrote: This is the one I mean to post Dudley. Was having some trouble with Youtube due to a plug-in I think.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7eYhlm9FJ8 Can you assess the problem? What, with my browser or the accident? The T-6 passed 90 deg (and even earlier) with his nose below the horizon. He could have rolled back and saved it at that point, but he continued around in the now awkward position of having to prevent further altitude loss with excessive neg G which slowed him considerably and further skewed the airplane's. The exit half was a classic dish. Everybody does 'em sometimes.... Trick is to recognise a roll that's going to produce one early enough to abandon it. This guy didn't. The You tube extension add-on, I have no idea, but it's made a mess out of my youtube fun! Bertie Bertie I made some comments on another post on this accident which was before the video of the accident was posted. I have looked at the strip probably 50 times and can't come up with what I believe is a accurate analysis of what all happened and why. 1. Bird was in a shallow dive and picking up airspeed, above cruise, when strip starts. This is a good entry technique. 2. Bird bottomed out and nose was raised above the horizon before roll started. Again good technique. 3. After first 90 degrees of roll nose had dropped to at least level or very slightly nose down. 4. After 180 degrees of roll nose was definitely below the horizon. Not in a dive but shallow enough that continuing roll rate should have allowed completion of roll before bird hitting ground. 5. After 270 degrees of roll bird made almost a square corner port turn and shortly after hit the ground almost flat 90 degrees off line of flight. 6. It did not look to me like he dished out but I don't know why the bird made the rapid 90 degree turn off line of flight. My experience with dish out of roll, in T-6, bird ended up at max 30 degrees off line of flight. 7. Assuming video strip was real time, the roll was a pretty rapid slow roll. My slow rolls were about half the roll rate of this bird. 8.Roll was against torque, which would have slowed roll down without extra aileron. 9.Either you or Dudley talked about G forces slowing bird down. I didn't see any large angle of attack which would be required to slow bird down. 10. Looking at bird in video, I didn't see any reduction in airspeed until about the time it made the 90 degree turn before impact. Lots of comments but can't give a hard analysis of what happened from start to finish. Big John |
#10
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T-6 accident
"Big John" wrote in message ... On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 13:51:53 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip wrote: WJRFlyBoy wrote in t: On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 08:12:31 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip wrote: This is the one I mean to post Dudley. Was having some trouble with Youtube due to a plug-in I think.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7eYhlm9FJ8 Can you assess the problem? What, with my browser or the accident? The T-6 passed 90 deg (and even earlier) with his nose below the horizon. He could have rolled back and saved it at that point, but he continued around in the now awkward position of having to prevent further altitude loss with excessive neg G which slowed him considerably and further skewed the airplane's. The exit half was a classic dish. Everybody does 'em sometimes.... Trick is to recognise a roll that's going to produce one early enough to abandon it. This guy didn't. The You tube extension add-on, I have no idea, but it's made a mess out of my youtube fun! Bertie Bertie I made some comments on another post on this accident which was before the video of the accident was posted. I have looked at the strip probably 50 times and can't come up with what I believe is a accurate analysis of what all happened and why. 1. Bird was in a shallow dive and picking up airspeed, above cruise, when strip starts. This is a good entry technique. 2. Bird bottomed out and nose was raised above the horizon before roll started. Again good technique. 3. After first 90 degrees of roll nose had dropped to at least level or very slightly nose down. 4. After 180 degrees of roll nose was definitely below the horizon. Not in a dive but shallow enough that continuing roll rate should have allowed completion of roll before bird hitting ground. 5. After 270 degrees of roll bird made almost a square corner port turn and shortly after hit the ground almost flat 90 degrees off line of flight. Is there any evidence that he fed in pro-roll rudder in addition to some elevator? That would explain both the nose dropping during the roll and the rather abrupt course change. 6. It did not look to me like he dished out but I don't know why the bird made the rapid 90 degree turn off line of flight. My experience with dish out of roll, in T-6, bird ended up at max 30 degrees off line of flight. 7. Assuming video strip was real time, the roll was a pretty rapid slow roll. My slow rolls were about half the roll rate of this bird. 8.Roll was against torque, which would have slowed roll down without extra aileron. 9.Either you or Dudley talked about G forces slowing bird down. I didn't see any large angle of attack which would be required to slow bird down. 10. Looking at bird in video, I didn't see any reduction in airspeed until about the time it made the 90 degree turn before impact. Lots of comments but can't give a hard analysis of what happened from start to finish. Big John |
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