A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Soaring
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Purists are from Pluto, Motorgliderists are from Mars - #2



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old April 10th 21, 11:22 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,939
Default Purists are from Pluto, Motorgliderists are from Mars - #2

Didn't make it to a new thread on the first attempt...
-----------------------------------------

I moved this to a new thread, as it seemed to go in a different direction than Bob's original
conversation starter.
-----------------------------------------

Guy Acheson wrote on 4/9/2021 8:51 PM:

There is no way to compare a pilot with an engine to a pilot without an engine.

We (you excepted, of course) do it all the time - easy peasy.

Completely different world view.

Not the ones I know, and after 26 seasons with a motorglider, I know a LOT of motorglider pilots.

Completely different set of choices regarding difficult weather.

See above.

Not on the same planet.

All the motorglider pilots I know started in unpowered gliders, then after many years, switched
to motorgliders, which they then flew mostly like they did before. Having a motor can encourage
taking more risks with the weather with some pilots, but not the "off the charts" extent you
seem to think. You can sometimes see similar behavior in an unpowered pilot that has a great
crew eager to do a retrieve. Henry Combs was the epitome of this behavior, more adventurous
than almost any other pilot (motorized or not) I've known, but there were/are number of them in
the Crystal Squadron following in his wing wake, and all without motors.

My view is most motorglider pilots don't take much advantage of the exploring that is more
available to motorglider pilots; that is, they continue to fly like they did when they were
"purists", and are just happy to have a launch when desired, and getting home in time for dinner.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
  #2  
Old April 11th 21, 12:22 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 281
Default Purists are from Pluto, Motorgliderists are from Mars - #2

On Saturday, April 10, 2021 at 6:22:43 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Didn't make it to a new thread on the first attempt...
-----------------------------------------

I moved this to a new thread, as it seemed to go in a different direction than Bob's original
conversation starter.
-----------------------------------------

Guy Acheson wrote on 4/9/2021 8:51 PM:

There is no way to compare a pilot with an engine to a pilot without an engine.

We (you excepted, of course) do it all the time - easy peasy.

Completely different world view.

Not the ones I know, and after 26 seasons with a motorglider, I know a LOT of motorglider pilots.

Completely different set of choices regarding difficult weather.

See above.

Not on the same planet.

All the motorglider pilots I know started in unpowered gliders, then after many years, switched
to motorgliders, which they then flew mostly like they did before. Having a motor can encourage
taking more risks with the weather with some pilots, but not the "off the charts" extent you
seem to think. You can sometimes see similar behavior in an unpowered pilot that has a great
crew eager to do a retrieve. Henry Combs was the epitome of this behavior, more adventurous
than almost any other pilot (motorized or not) I've known, but there were/are number of them in
the Crystal Squadron following in his wing wake, and all without motors.

My view is most motorglider pilots don't take much advantage of the exploring that is more
available to motorglider pilots; that is, they continue to fly like they did when they were
"purists", and are just happy to have a launch when desired, and getting home in time for dinner.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

I guess being in the Kuiper belt is not that bad. I guess us purist have a distinct habit of staying away from home. I guess next year we will name or gathering the Kuiper Safari.
  #3  
Old April 11th 21, 04:32 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,939
Default Purists are from Pluto, Motorgliderists are from Mars - #2

wrote on 4/10/2021 4:22 PM:
On Saturday, April 10, 2021 at 6:22:43 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Didn't make it to a new thread on the first attempt...
-----------------------------------------

I moved this to a new thread, as it seemed to go in a different direction than Bob's original
conversation starter.
-----------------------------------------

Guy Acheson wrote on 4/9/2021 8:51 PM:

There is no way to compare a pilot with an engine to a pilot without an engine.

We (you excepted, of course) do it all the time - easy peasy.

Completely different world view.

Not the ones I know, and after 26 seasons with a motorglider, I know a LOT of motorglider pilots.

Completely different set of choices regarding difficult weather.

See above.

Not on the same planet.

All the motorglider pilots I know started in unpowered gliders, then after many years, switched
to motorgliders, which they then flew mostly like they did before. Having a motor can encourage
taking more risks with the weather with some pilots, but not the "off the charts" extent you
seem to think. You can sometimes see similar behavior in an unpowered pilot that has a great
crew eager to do a retrieve. Henry Combs was the epitome of this behavior, more adventurous
than almost any other pilot (motorized or not) I've known, but there were/are number of them in
the Crystal Squadron following in his wing wake, and all without motors.

My view is most motorglider pilots don't take much advantage of the exploring that is more
available to motorglider pilots; that is, they continue to fly like they did when they were
"purists", and are just happy to have a launch when desired, and getting home in time for dinner.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

I guess being in the Kuiper belt is not that bad. I guess us purist have a distinct habit of staying away from home. I guess next year we will name or gathering the Kuiper Safari.


Don't read too much into the Pluto part: I just wanted some alliteration - Pluto/Purist,
Mars/Motorglider. :^)


--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
  #4  
Old April 11th 21, 05:10 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,939
Default Purists are from Pluto, Motorgliderists are from Mars - #2

Eric Greenwell wrote on 4/10/2021 8:32 PM:
I guess being in the Kuiper belt is not that bad. I guess us purist have a distinct habit of
staying away from home. I guess next year we will name or gathering the Kuiper Safari.


Don't read too much into the Pluto part: I just wanted some alliteration - Pluto/Purist,
Mars/Motorglider.* :^)


I suggest "Kuiper Kamp" to keep the alliteration going.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

  #5  
Old April 11th 21, 01:19 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
BobWa43
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 42
Default Purists are from Pluto, Motorgliderists are from Mars - #2

On Sunday, April 11, 2021 at 12:10:18 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Eric Greenwell wrote on 4/10/2021 8:32 PM:
I guess being in the Kuiper belt is not that bad. I guess us purist have a distinct habit of
staying away from home. I guess next year we will name or gathering the Kuiper Safari.


Don't read too much into the Pluto part: I just wanted some alliteration - Pluto/Purist,
Mars/Motorglider. :^)

I suggest "Kuiper Kamp" to keep the alliteration going.
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

Do I think that having or not having an engine is a predictor of piloting skills or testosterone levels? No, absolutely not. Do I think that having an engine provides a significant advantage in scoring OLC points? Absolutely, Yes. I have nothing against motor gliders, particularly the self launching variety,(I would like to own one except for the expense) but you have to admit that the sustainers have only one purpose and that is to save a flight that would otherwise end in landing out. How can anyone deny that this is a huge psychological advantage on the average OLC flight where there is nothing at stake but bragging rights. Bottom line, motor gliders should compete against motor gliders on OLC.
  #6  
Old April 11th 21, 01:54 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,939
Default Purists are from Pluto, Motorgliderists are from Mars - #2

BobWa43 wrote on 4/11/2021 5:19 AM:
On Sunday, April 11, 2021 at 12:10:18 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Eric Greenwell wrote on 4/10/2021 8:32 PM:
I guess being in the Kuiper belt is not that bad. I guess us purist have a distinct habit of
staying away from home. I guess next year we will name or gathering the Kuiper Safari.

Don't read too much into the Pluto part: I just wanted some alliteration - Pluto/Purist,
Mars/Motorglider. :^)

I suggest "Kuiper Kamp" to keep the alliteration going.
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

Do I think that having or not having an engine is a predictor of piloting skills or testosterone levels? No, absolutely not. Do I think that having an engine provides a significant advantage in scoring OLC points? Absolutely, Yes. I have nothing against motor gliders, particularly the self launching variety,(I would like to own one except for the expense) but you have to admit that the sustainers have only one purpose and that is to save a flight that would otherwise end in landing out. How can anyone deny that this is a huge psychological advantage on the average OLC flight where there is nothing at stake but bragging rights. Bottom line, motor gliders should compete against motor gliders on OLC.

I had flown 2000 hours in unpowered sailplanes when I switched to a motorglider, and I did not
feel I had a huge psychological advantage. And when I fly at the Parowan motorglider event each
year, somehow my "huge psychological advantage" isn't enough to keep pilots like Rami Yanetz
and Thorsten Streple from clobbering me on the OLC! There is some advantage, but it's not huge,
or even big.

So, of all the factors that go into an OLC score, why do you focus only on the motor? The place
has a much larger effect, I think. Who has the greater advantage: the sustainer pilot launching
from Seminole lake, or the pilot launching from Ridge Soaring on a good ridge day? Or a pilot
in South Africa?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
  #7  
Old April 12th 21, 11:45 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Douglas Richardson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 19
Default Purists are from Pluto, Motorgliderists are from Mars - #2

The argument that "purists" are better than "motorgliderists" is an argument used by miserable old men who try to assert that flying "pure" gliders is more difficult that flying motorised gliders in order to discourage the next generation from adopting emerging technologies.
They do this because they themselves own a "pure" (unmotorised) glider and they don't want their large investment to reduce to $0 as people move away from unmotorised gliders.
It's self-interest, through and through.
Simple as that.

Motorised gliders are far better for several different reasons:

1. Reduce risks associated with landouts
2. Faster turn around time between flights
3. No need for expensive equipment for a launch
4. Reduce the number of people required to launch
......etc....
  #8  
Old April 12th 21, 01:05 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 281
Default Purists are from Pluto, Motorgliderists are from Mars - #2

On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 6:45:09 AM UTC-4, wrote:
The argument that "purists" are better than "motorgliderists" is an argument used by miserable old men who try to assert that flying "pure" gliders is more difficult that flying motorised gliders in order to discourage the next generation from adopting emerging technologies.
They do this because they themselves own a "pure" (unmotorised) glider and they don't want their large investment to reduce to $0 as people move away from unmotorised gliders.
It's self-interest, through and through.
Simple as that.

Motorised gliders are far better for several different reasons:

1. Reduce risks associated with landouts
2. Faster turn around time between flights
3. No need for expensive equipment for a launch
4. Reduce the number of people required to launch
.....etc....


Richardson, I do not recall mentioning the word difficult on any of my post, that word never came into the conversation. This is all about advantage. Sustainers would have the same turn around time as the purist since the sustainer cannot self launch. The expense of a self launch is probably comparative to a pure glider and a respectable tow plane.
I guess it is just the miserable old man syndrome that keeps us going.
  #9  
Old April 12th 21, 01:46 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Moshe Braner
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 114
Default Purists are from Pluto, Motorgliderists are from Mars - #2

On 4/12/2021 6:45 AM, Douglas Richardson wrote:
...

Motorised gliders are far better for several different reasons:

...
3. No need for expensive equipment for a launch


Ha!

 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Martin JRM Mars Flying Boat pics [18/21] - Martin-JRM-3-Mars-Bu_No__-76822-Marshall-Mars.jpg (1/1) Miloch Aviation Photos 0 July 7th 16 03:56 PM
Martin JRM Mars Flying Boat pics [17/21] - Martin-JRM-3-Bu_-No_-76822-Marshall-Mars-burning-off-Diamond-Head-5-April-1950_jpg.jpg (1/1) Miloch Aviation Photos 0 July 7th 16 03:56 PM
Martin JRM Mars Flying Boat pics [11/21] - Mars-2-wiki.jpg (1/1) Miloch Aviation Photos 0 July 7th 16 03:56 PM
Hornet for the Purists Glenn[_2_] Aviation Photos 4 September 25th 07 04:00 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.