Squall torpedo

Whoops there goes another Super Carrier (steering gear & screws) !

http://www.diodon349.com/Kursk-Memor...the_squall.htm

"Spitfiremk9" wrote in message
...
Whoops there goes another Super Carrier (steering gear & screws) !

http://www.diodon349.com/Kursk-Memor...the_squall.htm

Stop being silly

The Skhval is a short range straight runner that does NOT
home in on the steering gear or screws. The Russian
torpedo that IS dangerous in this respect is the large
Type 53-65 passive wake homing torpedo,

Keith

Silly for sure. How that super-fast torpedo would be able to detect a
target? With a radar, perhaps? LOL!!!!

----------
In article ,
(Spitfiremk9) wrote:

Whoops there goes another Super Carrier (steering gear & screws) !

http://www.diodon349.com/Kursk-Memor...the_squall.htm

Both you and the website author are being goofy.

The site clearly states that this is an _anti-submarine_ torpedo.

In addition, the website is wrong about this being the cause for the sinking
of the Kursk. The Russians have concluded that it was actually an older,
conventional torpedo that probably caused the loss.




D

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message ...
"Spitfiremk9" wrote in message
...
Whoops there goes another Super Carrier (steering gear & screws) !

http://www.diodon349.com/Kursk-Memor...the_squall.htm

Stop being silly

The Skhval is a short range straight runner that does NOT
home in on the steering gear or screws. The Russian
torpedo that IS dangerous in this respect is the large
Type 53-65 passive wake homing torpedo,

Keith

I doubt the Russians would produce a completely impracticable weapon.
Almost certainly a modest degree of directional control (perhaps turn
rates of 1 degree per second) is possible if only to keep the missile
on course, homing guidence at full speed might be difficult due to
the gas cavity and rocket motor interfering with both passive and
active sonar but that wouldn't prevent the missile being equiped with
an inertial guidence system able to take the missile to within close
range of the target where it either slows down for a 'look' using
conventional passive or active sonar or it detonates a large (possibly
nuclear) warhead. Even a cheap inertial guidence system would have
drift rates of at most 20 meters per minute; given its speed of well
over 300km/h or 5km/minute so an attack on targets 25 km away would
place the missile within 100 meters of the 'enemy carrier' or 'sub'.

Even attacks using WW2 shoot and forget collision course type aiming
with spreads of torpedos would have a high degree of success given the
enormous speed of the missile preventing evasive manouvers.

"Eunometic" wrote in message
m...
"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...
"Spitfiremk9" wrote in message
...
Whoops there goes another Super Carrier (steering gear & screws) !

http://www.diodon349.com/Kursk-Memor...the_squall.htm

Stop being silly

The Skhval is a short range straight runner that does NOT
home in on the steering gear or screws. The Russian
torpedo that IS dangerous in this respect is the large
Type 53-65 passive wake homing torpedo,

Keith

I doubt the Russians would produce a completely impracticable weapon.

Its a Hail Mary Weapon intended to be fired at a vessel that has
a lock on you and is about to kill you. At best it might actually hit
the enemy but there's a good chance it'll evade and in doing so
break the lock.


Almost certainly a modest degree of directional control (perhaps turn
rates of 1 degree per second) is possible if only to keep the missile
on course, homing guidence at full speed might be difficult due to
the gas cavity and rocket motor interfering with both passive and
active sonar but that wouldn't prevent the missile being equiped with
an inertial guidence system able to take the missile to within close
range of the target where it either slows down for a 'look' using
conventional passive or active sonar or it detonates a large (possibly
nuclear) warhead. Even a cheap inertial guidence system would have
drift rates of at most 20 meters per minute; given its speed of well
over 300km/h or 5km/minute so an attack on targets 25 km away would
place the missile within 100 meters of the 'enemy carrier' or 'sub'.


Trouble is we know the weapon has no sucuh guidance system
and that its range is nothing like 25 km. Russia began marketing
the conventionally armed version of the Shkval at the IDEX 99
exhibition in Abu Dhabi in early 1999. The firisng system
sets the speed, distance and vector and feeds the data to the
missile's automatic pilot. The missile is fired, achieves its
optimum depth and switches on its engines. The missile
does not have a homing warhead

Even attacks using WW2 shoot and forget collision course type aiming
with spreads of torpedos would have a high degree of success given the
enormous speed of the missile preventing evasive manouvers.

If it were not for the fact that its range is less than 8000 yards

Keith

"U.S. intelligence has received several indications that the Russians
were working on an ADVANCED, MUCH LONGER RANGE SHKVAL . Russia's
Itar-Tass news agency reported in February 1998, for instance, that
tests of a "modernized" Shkval were scheduled by Russia's Pacific Fleet
for that spring."

FEBRUARY 1998 - THAT'S SIX YEARS AGO ! PLENTY OF TIME FOR EXTRA R & D ?


Other informed sources claim that the missile is in fact an offensive
weapon designed to destroy entire AIRCRAFT CARRIER battle groups with a
higher-yield nuclear warhead. During a nuclear war, it could even be
directed at a port or coastal land target.

"As there are NO KNOWN COUNTERMEASURES TO SUCH A WEAPON," states
Miller's 1995 Jane's article, "its deployment could have a significant
effect on future maritime operations, both surface and subsurface, and
could put Western naval forces at a considerable disadvantage."

Guidance at speed had been unavailable on the original model of the
torpedo due to the difficulty sonar has in penetrating the surrounding
gas envelope and what experts call "self-noise," but the Russians are
said to have now added a homing capability to the deadly device.
Reportedly, the improved homing version runs out at very high speed,
then slows to search for its target. If this is true, the new version
troubles top U.S. Navy brass, who would like to know as much as
possible about the advanced Shkval before it finds its way to places
such as China and Iran.

Gundarov also wrote that the Kursk was retrofitted during the same
period with a potentially problematic torpedo-launching system against
the wishes of many high-ranking Russian navy officials who considered
it to be "complicated and dangerous." The existing high-cost
silver-zinc battery and propeller system used for years to send the
Shkval out to a safe distance and orient it toward its target before
its rocket engine ignites was replaced. The new system employs a
higher-risk technology that uses a gas stream to propel the torpedo out
the tube. When the weapon is triggered, liquid fuel is burned
generating pressurized gas that shoots the Shkval out the launch tube.



D wrote:
----------
In article ,
(Spitfiremk9) wrote:

Whoops there goes another Super Carrier (steering gear & screws) !

http://www.diodon349.com/Kursk-Memor...the_squall.htm

Both you and the website author are being goofy.

The site clearly states that this is an _anti-submarine_ torpedo.

In addition, the website is wrong about this being the cause for the
sinking
of the Kursk. The Russians have concluded that it was actually an
older,
conventional torpedo that probably caused the loss.




D

How big is Shkval, anyway? Does it fire out of conventional tubes? It
just occurred to me that a system like shkval might be great as a
booster for smaller torp - sort of a submerged version of SUBROC, with
a mini torp deployed near a point pre-set by the firing sub.

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message ...
"Eunometic" wrote in message
m...
"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...
"Spitfiremk9" wrote in message
...
Whoops there goes another Super Carrier (steering gear & screws) !

http://www.diodon349.com/Kursk-Memor...the_squall.htm

Stop being silly

The Skhval is a short range straight runner that does NOT
home in on the steering gear or screws. The Russian
torpedo that IS dangerous in this respect is the large
Type 53-65 passive wake homing torpedo,

Keith

I doubt the Russians would produce a completely impracticable weapon.

Its a Hail Mary Weapon intended to be fired at a vessel that has
a lock on you and is about to kill you. At best it might actually hit
the enemy but there's a good chance it'll evade and in doing so
break the lock.


Almost certainly a modest degree of directional control (perhaps turn
rates of 1 degree per second) is possible if only to keep the missile
on course, homing guidence at full speed might be difficult due to
the gas cavity and rocket motor interfering with both passive and
active sonar but that wouldn't prevent the missile being equiped with
an inertial guidence system able to take the missile to within close
range of the target where it either slows down for a 'look' using
conventional passive or active sonar or it detonates a large (possibly
nuclear) warhead. Even a cheap inertial guidence system would have
drift rates of at most 20 meters per minute; given its speed of well
over 300km/h or 5km/minute so an attack on targets 25 km away would
place the missile within 100 meters of the 'enemy carrier' or 'sub'.


Trouble is we know the weapon has no sucuh guidance system
and that its range is nothing like 25 km. Russia began marketing
the conventionally armed version of the Shkval at the IDEX 99
exhibition in Abu Dhabi in early 1999. The firing system
sets the speed, distance and vector and feeds the data to the
missile's automatic pilot. The missile is fired, achieves its
optimum depth and switches on its engines. The missile
does not have a homing warhead

Even attacks using WW2 shoot and forget collision course type aiming
with spreads of torpedos would have a high degree of success given the
enormous speed of the missile preventing evasive manouvers.

If it were not for the fact that its range is less than 8000 yards

The site refered to at the begining of the thread refers to a switch
from solid propellant to liquid propulsion. This would appear to give
several advantages.

1 Higher specific impulse therfore speed and range.
2 The rocket-torpedo can be ejected from its own tube: manouever and
aligne itself towards the target at low speed by varying its thrust
and then accelerate at high speed rather than relying on a propellor
based system to achieve initial alignment.
3 After having intercepted its target at high speed it can slow down
for a 'look' using its terminal homing system and then re-alinge and
re-accelerate.

I also can see why the system can't use a trailing wire command
guidence systemn as conventional torpedos and missiles use. It may
have uses as a torpedo intercept system.




Keith

"Eunometic" wrote in message
om...
"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
news:colm61$gr5$1

The site refered to at the begining of the thread refers to a switch
from solid propellant to liquid propulsion. This would appear to give
several advantages.

1 Higher specific impulse therfore speed and range.

And considerable increase in risk, liquid propellants in
the torpedo room - shudders !

2 The rocket-torpedo can be ejected from its own tube: manouever and
aligne itself towards the target at low speed by varying its thrust
and then accelerate at high speed rather than relying on a propellor
based system to achieve initial alignment.

Throttlable rocket engines are considerably more complex
and the risk to the launcher just went up again.

3 After having intercepted its target at high speed it can slow down
for a 'look' using its terminal homing system and then re-alinge and
re-accelerate.


Not without turning off the gas generator for the supercavitation

I also can see why the system can't use a trailing wire command
guidence systemn as conventional torpedos and missiles use. It may
have uses as a torpedo intercept system.


That wire would trail behind the torpedo where the rocket exhaust is

Oops

Keith