More on Powell and the guard

"Merlin Dorfman" wrote in message
...
Cub Driver ) wrote:

: The Bill of Rights has proved cussedly hard to get around

"Money seeks its own level." When one way of spending
money is blocked, others are found.

George F. Will, the political columnist, often sez "Money is
fungible". That's an erudite way to agree with you 100%. ;-)

JFKerry was still ****ing American water when his tour was over.
The Kennedy's got him his medals, and got him home safe.

I'm sure every Kennedy except Teddy was sorry they ever lifted
a finger when he went Communist.

Ron ) wrote:
: Is anybody making the ridiculous claim that GWB "made it on
: his own?" He wouldn't have gotten any of those jobs without
: parental influence...and he certainly wouldn't have gotten into
: the Texas Air Guard.

: Parents can not get you your BA or BS degree.

But as has been pointed out many times, many more people could
succeed at Yale than can be admitted. Of that large number, most
don't get admitted. A few do, some of them through parental influence.

: They cant get you thru UPT

: They cant get thru F-102 training.

: Parents cant make you excel at pilot training and ACM.

: They also cant get you your MBA.

See above.

: Nor do parents just give you leadership.

: He has accomplished far more than most people, and while connections may help
: open the door, they do not get your thru or guarantee success. If a Democrat
: or Green had done many of the things he has, they would be trumpeting those
: accomplishments left and right.

Accomplisments like getting a gentleman's "C" at Yale, getting
the minimum passing grade on a pilot aptitude test, ...?

On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 15:36:42 -0500, "George Z. Bush"
wrote:

That's one pilot's opinion of another and hardly definitive. BTW, in earlier
days, anybody weighing 270 pounds would not have been able to fit into a fighter
cockpit. The tall guys inevitably ended up in bombers or transports, and the
real heavy guys (like 270 lbs.) ended up as the flight surgeon's medically
grounded annual project. Century series cockpits might be far more forgiving
and I'd certainly defer to someone like Ed Rasmussen, who'd be far more
knowledgeable than I on that subject. Anyway, one might be forgiven for
wondering what Udell's supervisors thought of him, and if Udell admired Bush so
much because they were cut from the same cloth and excelled at juvenile drinking
games in the O Club bar.

George Z.

After all these years, still misspelling my name....

The big guys to bombers, small guys to fighters concept is strictly an
urban legend. And, it isn't simply related to Century Series--take a
look at Robin Olds, 6' 2" and a solid 220 for most of his flying
years. That means starting with his WW II experience in P-38s and 51s.

I'm 6 foot and have been 200 pounds for my entire active flying
career. Lots of guys were taller and a few were shorter. Had one guy
in the 613th TFS with me at Torrejon named "Tiny" Reich. He was 6' 6".
He was a pilot in the F-4 at that time, but had been a WSO, shot down
in the back-seat of an F-4 and POW in Hanoi for almost a year.

The T-37 IP I mentioned, Tom Lockhart (who has a stronger favorable
opinion about GWB than Udell) is 6' 3" and generally ran about 225.



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

Ed Rasimus wrote:
"George Z. Bush" wrote:

That's one pilot's opinion of another and hardly definitive. BTW, in earlier
days, anybody weighing 270 pounds would not have been able to fit into a fighter
cockpit. The tall guys inevitably ended up in bombers or transports, and the
real heavy guys (like 270 lbs.) ended up as the flight surgeon's medically
grounded annual project. Century series cockpits might be far more forgiving
and I'd certainly defer to someone like Ed Rasmussen, who'd be far more
knowledgeable than I on that subject. Anyway, one might be forgiven for
wondering what Udell's supervisors thought of him, and if Udell admired Bush so
much because they were cut from the same cloth and excelled at juvenile drinking
games in the O Club bar.

George Z.

After all these years, still misspelling my name....

I know the feeling. Amazing, huh?

The big guys to bombers, small guys to fighters concept is strictly an
urban legend. And, it isn't simply related to Century Series--take a
look at Robin Olds, 6' 2" and a solid 220 for most of his flying
years. That means starting with his WW II experience in P-38s and 51s.

I'm 6 foot and have been 200 pounds for my entire active flying
career. Lots of guys were taller and a few were shorter. Had one guy
in the 613th TFS with me at Torrejon named "Tiny" Reich. He was 6' 6".
He was a pilot in the F-4 at that time, but had been a WSO, shot down
in the back-seat of an F-4 and POW in Hanoi for almost a year.

The T-37 IP I mentioned, Tom Lockhart (who has a stronger favorable
opinion about GWB than Udell) is 6' 3" and generally ran about 225.

Dad was extraordinarily broad across the shoulders and about the
same height and weight as you (6 ft. 1 in. and 200 lbs.) He usually
towered over most of the other somewhat shrimpy jocks on base.

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 15:36:42 -0500, "George Z. Bush"
wrote:

That's one pilot's opinion of another and hardly definitive. BTW, in earlier
days, anybody weighing 270 pounds would not have been able to fit into a
fighter
cockpit. The tall guys inevitably ended up in bombers or transports, and the
real heavy guys (like 270 lbs.) ended up as the flight surgeon's medically
grounded annual project. Century series cockpits might be far more forgiving
and I'd certainly defer to someone like Ed Rasmussen, who'd be far more
knowledgeable than I on that subject. Anyway, one might be forgiven for
wondering what Udell's supervisors thought of him, and if Udell admired Bush
so
much because they were cut from the same cloth and excelled at juvenile
drinking
games in the O Club bar.

George Z.

After all these years, still misspelling my name....

'Tis the price of fame that one must pay when encountering old timers being
subjected to repetitive brain farts. In any case, my apologies.

The big guys to bombers, small guys to fighters concept is strictly an
urban legend. And, it isn't simply related to Century Series--take a
look at Robin Olds, 6' 2" and a solid 220 for most of his flying
years. That means starting with his WW II experience in P-38s and 51s.

I'm 6 foot and have been 200 pounds for my entire active flying
career. Lots of guys were taller and a few were shorter. Had one guy
in the 613th TFS with me at Torrejon named "Tiny" Reich. He was 6' 6".
He was a pilot in the F-4 at that time, but had been a WSO, shot down
in the back-seat of an F-4 and POW in Hanoi for almost a year.

The T-37 IP I mentioned, Tom Lockhart (who has a stronger favorable
opinion about GWB than Udell) is 6' 3" and generally ran about 225.

Apart from repeating that I'd rather ask someone I thought might know rather
than insisting and making a fool of myself, I really always thought that the
bigger guys, and by that I mean guys who weighed considerably more than 225 or
measured somewhere above 6'3", were kept out of fighters by the people who made
those kinds of assignments early in our flying careers. At least, I thought
that was the case back in WWII and Korea.

Anyway, thanks for clarifying that for me. Obviously, even if it was true way
back then, it must have changed before or during the heydey of the Viet Nam
festivities, in which case, I obviously stand corrected.

George Z.

"Ed Rasimus" wrote

The big guys to bombers, small guys to fighters concept is strictly an
urban legend. And, it isn't simply related to Century Series--take a
look at Robin Olds, 6' 2" and a solid 220 for most of his flying
years. That means starting with his WW II experience in P-38s and 51s.

I love the picture of Chappie James who is overflowing the F-4 cockpit,
while his backseater looks like his helmet is too big, and is so small you
could put two of him in there. I think it was in the GPO printed
USAF Aces and Aerial victories book.

On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 17:28:24 -0600, "D. Strang"
wrote:

"Ed Rasimus" wrote

The big guys to bombers, small guys to fighters concept is strictly an
urban legend. And, it isn't simply related to Century Series--take a
look at Robin Olds, 6' 2" and a solid 220 for most of his flying
years. That means starting with his WW II experience in P-38s and 51s.

I love the picture of Chappie James who is overflowing the F-4 cockpit,
while his backseater looks like his helmet is too big, and is so small you
could put two of him in there. I think it was in the GPO printed
USAF Aces and Aerial victories book.


Chappy tended toward over-statement. The real leader of the 8th TFW
was Robin, but with his emphasis on leading-by-example, Chappy was
forced to fly the tough missions as well.

Chappy's comment about his bulk in the F-4 cockpit was "I don't get
in, I put it on."

When a flight lead exhorted Chappie on how he wanted close formation
flown by saying, "I want you on my wing, attached with a six foot
string." Chappy replied, "how much slack ya'all want in that string."


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

Ed Rasimus wrote:
On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 17:28:24 -0600, "D. Strang"
wrote:

"Ed Rasimus" wrote

The big guys to bombers, small guys to fighters concept is strictly an
urban legend. And, it isn't simply related to Century Series--take a
look at Robin Olds, 6' 2" and a solid 220 for most of his flying
years. That means starting with his WW II experience in P-38s and 51s.

I love the picture of Chappie James who is overflowing the F-4 cockpit,
while his backseater looks like his helmet is too big, and is so small you
could put two of him in there. I think it was in the GPO printed
USAF Aces and Aerial victories book.


Chappy tended toward over-statement. The real leader of the 8th TFW
was Robin, but with his emphasis on leading-by-example, Chappy was
forced to fly the tough missions as well.

Chappy's comment about his bulk in the F-4 cockpit was "I don't get
in, I put it on."

When a flight lead exhorted Chappie on how he wanted close formation
flown by saying, "I want you on my wing, attached with a six foot
string." Chappy replied, "how much slack ya'all want in that string."

****! Easy for him to say! But you haven't lived until you've done it in a
C-46. By the time I'd get back on the ground, I always left a couple of inches
of sweat puddled in the pilot's seat of the horse.

And before you fighter jocks start snickering, I used to be able to tuck it in
just as tight as you guys did....I maybe had to work harder at it than you to
hold it in there, but that was work I never minded doing, because my ass was on
the line if I got lazy. (^-^)))

Anyway, I'm here to tell you about it, so I guess I got it right.

George Z.

From: "D. Strang"
Date: 3/1/2004 5:28 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id: yGP0c.7164$m4.3944@okepread03

"Ed Rasimus" wrote

The big guys to bombers, small guys to fighters concept is strictly an
urban legend. And, it isn't simply related to Century Series--take a
look at Robin Olds, 6' 2" and a solid 220 for most of his flying
years. That means starting with his WW II experience in P-38s and 51s.

I love the picture of Chappie James who is overflowing the F-4 cockpit,
while his backseater looks like his helmet is too big, and is so small you
could put two of him in there. I think it was in the GPO printed
USAF Aces and Aerial victories book.


My main problem with the F-4E is the headroom from bucket to canopy was on the
order of 42 or 43 inches. I needed about 44 to sit up straight even with the
seat all the way down.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired