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Dan Rather forges ahead
From the New York Post this morning: September 11, 2004 -- CBS anchor Dan Rather hung tough last night and insisted there's no "definitive evidence" to refute the authenticity of documents about President Bush's National Guard service but a growing number of document experts smell a hoax. "If any definitive evidence to the contrary of our story is found, we will report it. So far there is none," Rather insisted. He produced a man named Marcel Matley as the document vetter. But Matley is primarily a handwriting expert whose expertise in document evaluation has been challenged by the head of the American Board of Forensic Document Examiners. Matley spoke only about a signature and initials purported to be those of the late Lt. Col. Jerry Killian "they are his signatures" though two of the four memos are unsigned. Rather also acknowledged CBS has no originals, only photocopies. Allan Haley a typeface expert at Agfa Monotype said anyone who claims to definitively authenticate a photocopy "is either guessing or is a fool." In another challenge to CBS, Killian's boss, retired Maj. Gen. Bobby W. Hodges, told ABC News that he regards the documents as a computer "fraud," never saw them in the 1970s and didn't validate them for CBS. A senior CBS official had claimed to the Washington Post that Hodges had validated the documents. During his national news broadcast, Rather claimed "partisan political operatives" are challenging the memos but omitted the fact that Killian's widow and son dispute them. The memos cast doubt on whether Bush fulfilled his Guard requirements. Marjorie Connell widow of Lt. Col. Killian, who died in 1984 has told ABC the documents are "very suspect" because her late husband didn't type and was a big fan of the young Bush. A key issue is whether the documents were made on a 1970s-era typewriter or are forgeries done by computer because of their proportional spacing and raised superscripts on ordinal numbers like "111th." Rather last night pointed to an undisputed document from Bush's National Guard files and claimed it has a superscript, so they were available by 1968. But that document is in a different typeface and experts say it was made on a different type of machine without proportional spacing so it proves nothing. "It could be a superscript, it could be a correction with a letter showing through white-out, but in any case it's absolutely irrelevant .. . . It doesn't prove a thing," said document expert Bill Flynn. "It's a completely different technology," added the Phoenix-based Flynn. Flynn said it's "very unlikely" that the memos are legit, adding that he knows of no typewriter fonts using proportionally spaced Roman type with a raised "th" available in the 1970s. all the best -- Dan Ford email: (put Cubdriver in subject line) The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com Expedition sailboat charters www.expeditionsail.com |
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Flynn said it's "very unlikely" that the memos are legit, adding that
he knows of no typewriter fonts using proportionally spaced Roman type with a raised "th" available in the 1970s. Come off it, Dan, anyone who used a typewriter knew the trick of lifting the roller a smidge (or lowering it) for sub (or super) script. You must not have ever typed footnotes. |
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One of the obvious forgeries is posted at www.vivabush.org with a link to another site with more of the same, plus a $10,500 reward for Tom Cervo if he can re-create those documents with a 1972 typewriter. Enjoy the site. I established it four months ago after reading some of the slime posted on this newsgroup about Bush, whom I was then inclined to support. Over the months, I have become ever more partisan in this respect. Thus do anonymous trolls defeat their own cause. all the best -- Dan Ford email: (put Cubdriver in subject line) The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com Expedition sailboat charters www.expeditionsail.com |
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On 11 Sep 2004 22:30:08 GMT, (Tom Cervo) wrote:
Flynn said it's "very unlikely" that the memos are legit, adding that he knows of no typewriter fonts using proportionally spaced Roman type with a raised "th" available in the 1970s. Come off it, Dan, anyone who used a typewriter knew the trick of lifting the roller a smidge (or lowering it) for sub (or super) script. You must not have ever typed footnotes. And, anyone who used a typewriter knows that the trick results in a sub or super that is the same size type face as the typewriter's, not the smaller word processor font used for sub/supers. But, the more important questions relate to why the commander is writing memos about pressure from a superior who retired 18 months earlier and hence was no longer above him. Or, why is the commander ordering Bush for a physical just two weeks into his 90 period of eligibility? Or, since when does a squadron commander issue orders for flight physicals (they don't!) Or why does the commander identify a CYA memo as a CYA? If you're really trying to cover your ass you don't point it out in the subject line. Or, why is the commander writing orders to a subordinate that he has already approved for temporary posting to another state in a unit which at the time had no airplanes to fly and over which he had no authority? Or, why does the commander's wife and son deny that he could type, that he was a memo writer or that he had any problem with Lt. Bush who he had commended very publicly on the record the year before? Ed Rasimus Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret) "When Thunder Rolled" "Phantom Flights, Bangkok Nights" Both from Smithsonian Books ***www.thunderchief.org |
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"Ed Rasimus" wrote
But, the more important questions relate to why the commander is writing memos about pressure from a superior who retired 18 months earlier and hence was no longer above him. Or, why is the commander ordering Bush for a physical just two weeks into his 90 period of eligibility? Or, since when does a squadron commander issue orders for flight physicals (they don't!) Or why does the commander identify a CYA memo as a CYA? If you're really trying to cover your ass you don't point it out in the subject line. Or, why is the commander writing orders to a subordinate that he has already approved for temporary posting to another state in a unit which at the time had no airplanes to fly and over which he had no authority? Or, why does the commander's wife and son deny that he could type, that he was a memo writer or that he had any problem with Lt. Bush who he had commended very publicly on the record the year before? All of your points are right on the mark! I just don't see how a person like Dan Rather could be so easily duped by these forgeries. They weren't even originals! Hell even I can cut out someone's signature and put it on any letter I want with just a Xerox machine. Today I would just use my scanner and add it to my MS Word document. No, I think Dan Rather was putting his reputation behind a known forgery, to give it credence, and to hurt the Republican party. I hope it now results in his finally being put out to pasture (which should have happened 10 years ago anyway). Same with the other scum-bags on 60 minutes, who are always making a mountain out of a mole hill. |
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"Bob Coe" wrote in message
news:%JM0d.23965$ni.13950@okepread01... I just don't see how a person like Dan Rather could be so easily duped by these forgeries. They weren't even originals! Hell even I can cut out someone's signature and put it on any letter I want with just a Xerox machine. Today I would just use my scanner and add it to my MS Word document. I give him the benefit of the doubt - he saw what he wanted to see. No, I think Dan Rather was putting his reputation behind a known forgery, to give it credence, and to hurt the Republican party. I hope it now results in his finally being put out to pasture (which should have happened 10 years ago anyway). Same with the other scum-bags on 60 minutes, who are always making a mountain out of a mole hill. I'm sure he has no qualms about hurting the Republican party, but I still think it unlikely he knew. Jarg |
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Subject: Dan Rather forges ahead
From: "Jarg" Date: 9/11/2004 5:32 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: m "Bob Coe" wrote in message news:%JM0d.23965$ni.13950@okepread01... I just don't see how a person like Dan Rather could be so easily duped by these forgeries. They weren't even originals! Hell even I can cut out someone's signature and put it on any letter I want with just a Xerox machine. Today I would just use my scanner and add it to my MS Word document. I give him the benefit of the doubt - he saw what he wanted to see. No, I think Dan Rather was putting his reputation behind a known forgery, to give it credence, and to hurt the Republican party. I hope it now results in his finally being put out to pasture (which should have happened 10 years ago anyway). Same with the other scum-bags on 60 minutes, who are always making a mountain out of a mole hill. I'm sure he has no qualms about hurting the Republican party, but I still think it unlikely he knew. Jarg Nothing to know. These were the real thing. The rest is just the usual Neocon spin. Arthur Kramer 344th BG 494th BS England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany Visit my WW II B-26 website at: http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer |
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In article %JM0d.23965$ni.13950@okepread01,
"Bob Coe" wrote: I just don't see how a person like Dan Rather could be so easily duped by these forgeries. They're something that he desperately *wants* to believe, reasonable or not. |
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