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"GPS Unreliable" NOTAM



 
 
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  #11  
Old July 19th 03, 03:02 PM
Ray Andraka
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In the case of the P-static, the handheld did no good. The incident in
the rental was the reason I bought the handheld.

Robert Henry wrote:

"Ray Andraka" wrote in message
...
Doesn't leave you any out should comm go down. I've had that
happen due to P-static, ice on the antenna, and problems with the
radio in a rental.


Dial in last good frequency or 121.5 on the handheld.


--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759


  #12  
Old July 19th 03, 03:06 PM
Roy Smith
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"Richard Kaplan" wrote:
Clearly this situation is absurd, and for that reason we cannot and never
will switch to GPS-only navigation.


Is anybody saying that we should?
  #13  
Old July 19th 03, 11:14 PM
News
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You can see some of the thinking on the FAA web site. Remember, these are
proposals for long term plans which are subject to change. It looks like the
plan is to shut down a lot of VOR's, but keep enough around so there is a
safety net (always within range of one VOR). Right now there are large parts
of the country where aircraft can simultaneous receive 3 or more VOR's at
the same time. By shutting down the "right" ones, the VOR system is cheaper
but still available for emergencies. If there were a sustained GPS outage
this would probably not help.

FAA's Transition Strategy for Navigation and Landing Services
http://www2.faa.gov/asd/briefings/05...tion-brief.ppt

Free Flight
http://www2.faa.gov/nasarchitecture/...DF/NAS_mod.pdf

Martin Van Ryswyk


"Richard Kaplan" wrote in message
...


"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...

Is anybody saying that we should?


Yes... a number of people posting on this thread have indicated that is

the
plan, at least the LONG-TERM plan.

--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com





  #14  
Old July 20th 03, 07:53 PM
Richard Kaplan
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"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

If your airplane had nothing but VOR-based avionics, and the PATUXENT VOR
itself was notamed out, what would your options be? There are plenty of



My options would be GPS (preferably) or NDB or Loran.


Frankly, your rantings are becoming tiresome. You have said nothing

critical
of dependence on GPS that cannot also be said of the current dependence on
VOR.


Absolutely true. I agree that we need alternatives to VOR just like we
need alternatives to GPS. I also think that a transition to a system which
emphasizes GPS is desirable. I just do not think we can put all our eggs in
the GPS basket any more than we can put them all in the VOR basket.


I especially am tired of the 'what-if' games, such as Andraka's comment

that

"What-if" is the most important question any pilot can ask, especailly an
instrument pilot.

I do not know how many people have to die before Mr. Kaplan and others of
his ilk finally realize that there is something fundamentally wrong with
ground-based radio navigation. Yes, at one time it was all we had. But it

is

I think this is quite a bit of hyperbole. Again, GPS is terrific and we
should move forward. We just cannot make it the exclusive navigation system
without any backup. Surely there is no one who will argue that a GPS-only
world is safer than a GPS/ILS/VOR world -- cheaper maybe, but safer?

--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com


  #15  
Old July 20th 03, 09:41 PM
Ray Andraka
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I wouldn't have made the comment if it hadn't actually happened. Both in the P
static and icing encounters I lost comm but not nav. The p-static made the
Loran unusable, but not the VORs. GPS is great, but as I and Mr Kaplan have
said, we prefer to not put all the eggs in one basket. I'll be keeping the ADF
and Loran in my panel as long as there are stations to use them on. I also
carry handhelds as backups for the electrical system.



C J Campbell wrote:

I especially am tired of the 'what-if' games, such as Andraka's comment that
you have no out if you also lose your comms. Get real. We are beginning to
talk about scenarios where you have complete failure of the electrical
system here. Do you realistically expect your VORs to continue working under
such conditions? If you have static or ice building up on your comm
antennae, you have static or ice building up on your VOR antennae as well.


--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759


  #16  
Old July 21st 03, 04:51 PM
C J Campbell
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"Richard Kaplan" wrote in message
...
| "C J Campbell" wrote in message
| ...
|
|
| I do not know how many people have to die before Mr. Kaplan and others
of
| his ilk finally realize that there is something fundamentally wrong with
| ground-based radio navigation. Yes, at one time it was all we had. But
it
| is
|
| I think this is quite a bit of hyperbole.

Of course it is. And it was deliberate, too. I admit that it was very
difficult to come up with hyperbole equivalent to that of airplanes falling
out of the sky because of terrorists jamming the GPS system, though.


  #17  
Old July 21st 03, 07:14 PM
Ron Natalie
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"Richard Kaplan" wrote in message ...

With that as background, look at the following NOTAM, which is currently
available on DUAT. We can theorize all we want about whether this NOTAM
exists due to military testing or some atmospheric irregularity or whatever,
but the point is that the NOTAM really is out there and will be effective in
a few days. If my plane had nothing but GPS-based avionics, what would my
options be?

From my discussions with some stationed there, it is airborne GPS jamming testing.


  #18  
Old July 22nd 03, 03:19 AM
Richard Kaplan
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"C J Campbell" wrote in message ...

difficult to come up with hyperbole equivalent to that of airplanes falling
out of the sky because of terrorists jamming the GPS system, though.


You are the one who keeps mentioning terrorists jamming the GPS
system.

Look at the title of this thread -- I am talking about the very real
NOTAM which is actually published right now regarding GPS Unreliable
in a given region. This is no hyperbole on my part -- it is a real
NOTAM.

--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com
  #19  
Old July 22nd 03, 07:27 AM
C J Campbell
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"Richard Kaplan" wrote in message
om...
| "C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
|
| difficult to come up with hyperbole equivalent to that of airplanes
falling
| out of the sky because of terrorists jamming the GPS system, though.
|
| You are the one who keeps mentioning terrorists jamming the GPS
| system.
|

Am I indeed? I believe I mentioned them precisely once. Perhaps you have me
confused with somebody else.


  #20  
Old July 22nd 03, 04:04 PM
C J Campbell
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Well, you still can't get HIWAS on a GPS. I suppose if GPS ever became the
sole navigation system we would have to depend on downloaded weather.


 




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