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Airlines Cut Minimum Pilot Experience to 500 hours and Below



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 26th 07, 05:56 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Larry Dighera
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,953
Default Airlines Cut Minimum Pilot Experience to 500 hours and Below


More Evidence of the Pilot Shortage


PILOT SHORTAGE HITS REGIONALS
(http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archive...ll.html#196655)
American Eagle, the regional subsidiary of American Airlines, has
trimmed flights from its winter schedule in part because it
doesn't have enough pilots. "It's one of several reasons, but that
does play into it," Eagle spokeswoman Andrea Huguely told the Fort
Worth Star-Telegram
(http://www.star-telegram.com/busines...y/322928.html). "The
pilots are crucial, and without them, the planes don't fly." Eagle
is one of several airlines that has cut minimum experience
requirements by two-thirds to 500 hours to attract more recruits.
According to the newspaper, Trans States Airlines, which operates
a regional service for American under the name American
Connection, briefly lowered its experience requirement to 250
hours during the summer. Although no one seems to deny the value
of experience, industry spokesmen contacted by the newspaper
seemed to agree that safety is not being seriously compromised.


http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/...20News/852841/
The carriers have reduced required flight hours for job applicants
by as much as two-thirds, and in a few cases have hired pilots
with the minimum experience required by the Federal Aviation
Administration for a pilot's license. ...

"The rush to push pilots through training and into the cockpits
raises obvious safety concerns," said John Prater, a veteran
Continental Airlines pilot and president of the Air Line Pilots
Association. ...

"New pilots today are going straight into the [co-pilot's] seat,
and moving into the [captain's] seat in a hurry," he said. "And
they're doing it in airplanes that are great machines but can be
unforgiving." ...

For example, a starting pilot at Trans States, a regional airline
that flies for American under the name American Connection, earns
$22 a flight hour, with 74 hours guaranteed a month, according to
AirlinePilotCentral.com, which tracks pilot salaries. That
translates to an annual starting salary of $19,500. A pilot flying
1,000 hours a year -- the most allowed under federal rules --
would earn about $22,000. ...

Airlines are aggressively recruiting on college campuses and
offering signing bonuses to new hires who complete their training.


  #2  
Old November 26th 07, 06:24 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Panic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 42
Default Airlines Cut Minimum Pilot Experience to 500 hours and Below

Yeah, and what do many non-pilots don't fully understand is that pilots get
paid for the hours they fly...not for the hours they work. In an 8 hour
workday they may only get 4 hours of flight pay. Flight planning,
preflight, postflight, etc are not paid hours of work. $22.00/hour pay
rate (flight time) can translate to $11.00 an hour for actual working time.

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...

More Evidence of the Pilot Shortage


PILOT SHORTAGE HITS REGIONALS
(http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archive...ll.html#196655)
American Eagle, the regional subsidiary of American Airlines, has
trimmed flights from its winter schedule in part because it
doesn't have enough pilots. "It's one of several reasons, but that
does play into it," Eagle spokeswoman Andrea Huguely told the Fort
Worth Star-Telegram
(http://www.star-telegram.com/busines...y/322928.html). "The
pilots are crucial, and without them, the planes don't fly." Eagle
is one of several airlines that has cut minimum experience
requirements by two-thirds to 500 hours to attract more recruits.
According to the newspaper, Trans States Airlines, which operates
a regional service for American under the name American
Connection, briefly lowered its experience requirement to 250
hours during the summer. Although no one seems to deny the value
of experience, industry spokesmen contacted by the newspaper
seemed to agree that safety is not being seriously compromised.


http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/...20News/852841/
The carriers have reduced required flight hours for job applicants
by as much as two-thirds, and in a few cases have hired pilots
with the minimum experience required by the Federal Aviation
Administration for a pilot's license. ...

"The rush to push pilots through training and into the cockpits
raises obvious safety concerns," said John Prater, a veteran
Continental Airlines pilot and president of the Air Line Pilots
Association. ...

"New pilots today are going straight into the [co-pilot's] seat,
and moving into the [captain's] seat in a hurry," he said. "And
they're doing it in airplanes that are great machines but can be
unforgiving." ...

For example, a starting pilot at Trans States, a regional airline
that flies for American under the name American Connection, earns
$22 a flight hour, with 74 hours guaranteed a month, according to
AirlinePilotCentral.com, which tracks pilot salaries. That
translates to an annual starting salary of $19,500. A pilot flying
1,000 hours a year -- the most allowed under federal rules --
would earn about $22,000. ...

Airlines are aggressively recruiting on college campuses and
offering signing bonuses to new hires who complete their training.




  #3  
Old November 26th 07, 06:38 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Gatt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 179
Default Airlines Cut Minimum Pilot Experience to 500 hours and Below


"Panic" wrote in message
...
Yeah, and what do many non-pilots don't fully understand is that pilots
get paid for the hours they fly...not for the hours they work. In an 8
hour workday they may only get 4 hours of flight pay. Flight planning,
preflight, postflight, etc are not paid hours of work. $22.00/hour pay
rate (flight time) can translate to $11.00 an hour for actual working
time.


I'm curious as to why the airline pilots haven't all gone on strike to
demand better pay. Clearly, they can't be easily replaced or the airlines
wouldn't be scraping the bottom of the barrel for new hires. I learned
about supply/demand in Economics 101 but I'm sure the airline executives
know exactly what they're doing.

I'm sorry, but, there's a Burgerville down the road that pays better than
$11/hr, and a car dealership that pays better too; why would I invest tens
of thousands of dollars, submit myself to annual medical exams, corporate
nonsense (such as pilot salary) and inherent job insecurity, and then
separate myself from my family for less than what the guy flipping burgers
or selling Toyotas down the street makes?

Here's one otherwise-interested commercial pilot that the airlines won't get
for less than the $42,000 I could make resetting people's
e-mail and router passwords from the safety of an air-conditioned office.

-c


  #4  
Old November 26th 07, 06:50 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Robert M. Gary
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,767
Default Airlines Cut Minimum Pilot Experience to 500 hours and Below

On Nov 26, 9:38 am, "Gatt" wrote:
"Panic" wrote in message

...

Yeah, and what do many non-pilots don't fully understand is that pilots
get paid for the hours they fly...not for the hours they work. In an 8
hour workday they may only get 4 hours of flight pay. Flight planning,
preflight, postflight, etc are not paid hours of work. $22.00/hour pay
rate (flight time) can translate to $11.00 an hour for actual working
time.


I'm curious as to why the airline pilots haven't all gone on strike to
demand better pay. Clearly, they can't be easily replaced or the airlines
wouldn't be scraping the bottom of the barrel for new hires. I learned
about supply/demand in Economics 101 but I'm sure the airline executives
know exactly what they're doing.


First, you can only strike if you are part of a union. Federal laws
give unions protections that allow them to gain excess benefits,
beyond what supply and demand allow for. In short, when a union is
involved you do not have a free market (the employeer has his hands
tied and his nuts in a vice).

Second, even a union (like a parasite) cannot kill its host. Most
airlines are on the edge of bankruptcy (if not already in bankruptcy)
so asking for more money would just kill the host. Today competition
in the market has made margins slim in the industry and the survivors
are those that can produce their profit for the lowest cost
(Southwest, Jetblue, etc). Asking your airline to increase its cost
structure to increase your pay can literally put it out of business in
today's market.

-Robert
  #5  
Old November 26th 07, 06:56 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Robert M. Gary
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,767
Default Airlines Cut Minimum Pilot Experience to 500 hours and Below


Here's one otherwise-interested commercial pilot that the airlines won't get
for less than the $42,000 I could make resetting people's
e-mail and router passwords from the safety of an air-conditioned office.


Apparently you aren't interested enough. Luckily for the airlines,
other's are. As long as there are lots of applications on their desk
there is no reason to seek out you. I have no doubt that the airlines
will fill their vacacies.

-Robert
  #6  
Old November 26th 07, 07:13 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Gatt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 179
Default Airlines Cut Minimum Pilot Experience to 500 hours and Below


Here's one otherwise-interested commercial pilot that the airlines won't
get
for less than the $42,000 I could make resetting people's
e-mail and router passwords from the safety of an air-conditioned office.


Apparently you aren't interested enough. Luckily for the airlines,
other's are. As long as there are lots of applications on their desk
there is no reason to seek out you. I have no doubt that the airlines
will fill their vacacies.


Clearly. That's why there's a hiring shortage and they're having to scrape
the bottom of the barrel of qualified applicants to fill those jobs.

-c


  #7  
Old November 26th 07, 07:16 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Gatt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 179
Default Airlines Cut Minimum Pilot Experience to 500 hours and Below


"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
news:8fe9b408-db41-494c-8015-

Clearly, they can't be easily replaced or the airlines wouldn't be
scraping the bottom of the barrel for new hires. I learned
about supply/demand in Economics 101 but I'm sure the airline executives
know exactly what they're doing.


First, you can only strike if you are part of a union. Federal laws give
unions protections that allow them to gain excess benefits,
beyond what supply and demand allow for. In short, when a union is
involved you do not have a free market (the employeer has his hands tied
and his nuts in a vice).


Well, having worked as a system administrator and seen countless jobs
shipped over to Bumfkistan, I'm not so interested in employers' interest
anymore. It is quite literally us and them. You do what the desk-pilot
with the MBA says, when they say, for how much they say, for as how long
they say, and it doesn't matter how well you do it because as soon as they
can hire somebody offshore to do it for less, your ass is out the door.

Most airlines are on the edge of bankruptcy (if not already in bankruptcy)
so asking for more money would just kill the host.


They should fire an executive and hire a couple of dozen pilots with the
money.

Asking your airline to increase its cost structure to increase your pay
can literally put it out of business in
today's market.


What do you suppose their HR, marketing and IT people make? I'd bet that
their 20-year-old Help Desk techs make more than starting pilots. All kinds
of people talk about it and excuse the behavior but the reality is that the
airlines are desperate for pilots; dangerously so, according to the media
and inevitable consumer opinion. But, hey, when an engine fails on a 737,
maybe they can call the Help Desk.

America reaps, America sows. Consistently, America makes excuses for its
backwardass business logic. (In 1980 few people would have bought anything
"Made in the U.S.S.R." Now we're having to check to make sure the crap the
rival superpower we helped build isn't feeding our kids lead paint.

-c


  #8  
Old November 26th 07, 07:56 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Jay Honeck
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,573
Default Airlines Cut Minimum Pilot Experience to 500 hours and Below

Apparently you aren't interested enough. Luckily for the airlines,
other's are. As long as there are lots of applications on their desk
there is no reason to seek out you. I have no doubt that the airlines
will fill their vacacies.


Clearly. That's why there's a hiring shortage and they're having to scrape
the bottom of the barrel of qualified applicants to fill those jobs.


When they run out of apps, they'll raise the pay until they get some
more apps.

That's how it works in every business.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"
  #9  
Old November 26th 07, 08:03 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
F. Baum
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 244
Default Airlines Cut Minimum Pilot Experience to 500 hours and Below

On Nov 26, 10:50 am, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:

First, you can only strike if you are part of a union. Federal laws
give unions protections that allow them to gain excess benefits,
beyond what supply and demand allow for. In short, when a union is
involved you do not have a free market (the employeer has his hands
tied and his nuts in a vice).


Robert, this post (Just like many of your other posts) shows that you
dont really have a grasp of the situation. If you dont like organized
labor thats fine, but you are making yourself look silly by painting
things with a broad brush.

Second, even a union (like a parasite) cannot kill its host. Most
airlines are on the edge of bankruptcy (if not already in bankruptcy)
so asking for more money would just kill the host. Today competition
in the market has made margins slim in the industry and the survivors
are those that can produce their profit for the lowest cost
(Southwest, Jetblue, etc). Asking your airline to increase its cost
structure to increase your pay can literally put it out of business in
today's market.


Where did you come up with this. Which airlines are on the brink ?
With the exeption of Doug Parker and USAirways the airlines have been
doing quite well. Pick up a newspaper once in awhile .
F Baum

-Robert- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


  #10  
Old November 26th 07, 08:06 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Gatt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 179
Default Airlines Cut Minimum Pilot Experience to 500 hours and Below


"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:37ebfada-110b-4b3e-a0cb-]

Clearly. That's why there's a hiring shortage and they're having to
scrape
the bottom of the barrel of qualified applicants to fill those jobs.


When they run out of apps, they'll raise the pay until they get some
more apps.

That's how it works in every business.


Meanwhile, the cream of the crop will go fly for El Al of Lufthansa, and UAL
scrounges around hiring inexperienced pilots.

Makes perfect sense.

-c


 




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