NATCA Going Down in Flames

john smith wrote:
In article om,
"Jay Honeck" wrote:

I'll bet there's at least half a dozen companies, all willing to bid on
the ATC contract, all promising to do it "cheaper-faster-better"...

I believe it was one of the Mercury astronauts that made a comment about
being bothered by the fact that the construction of the capsules and
rockets went to the lowest bidder.

You might be thinking about Gus Grissom's problems with the Apollo
capsule...he hung a lemon in the simulator.

and all you've done is
change the upper management...

Which, to be fair, sometimes makes a difference.

Jose
--
There are more ways to skin a cat than there are cats.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

When I read it, I took it a different way. I took it as a sign of how
off-track the FAA could be in requiring such a superficial thing in the face
of other, as you have said, more important issues. The other rule changes
can be debated. Instituting a dress code and then debating it, is a waste of
time.

And another thing, no controller should report to work without having used
mouthwash...

Appearance is a funny thing. It is difficult to determine if someone just
doesn't care about their appearance or their job - or that they feel so
confident in what they do that they believe that appearance doesn't matter.
Rather than institute a dress code, find out which of these two is the
cause. For the first, fire. For the second, educate.

The guy that always dresses nicely among shorts and tee-shirts is probably
the one that is afraid someone will discover his incompetence.

I'm not a real big supporter of unions. I'm sure that there are good
examples out there but my exposure has been with people taking advantage of
union representation so that they could do the least that they could do with
maximum pay and benefits.

It would seem to me that, if the union was doing it's job, that it would be
asking union members to do their best and look their best.

-------------------------------
Travis
Lake N3094P
PWK

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ups.com...
NOW you're talking about something substantive. Of course what you've
described is an issue -- so get your collective heads out of your
collective butts about having to dress professionally, and start
discussing the *real* issues.


YOU started this thread. YOU are the one that focused on the dress code
and
ignored the rest of the newly imposed work rules.

NATCA throwing a fit about a minor dress code change was newsworthy
enough for AvWeb to pick up; thus, the thread.

My statement stands. If controllers want issues to be taken seriously,
tell your union to stop worrying about the window dressing, stop
whining about having to dress like businesspeople, and focus on the
substantive issues. Starting a dispute over this kind of stuff isn't
doing anything but make NATCA look unprofessional.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...
Small wonder the IT field is now over in Asia.

No, it's going over there because the upper level managers who make these
sorts of decisions have no technical knowledge whatsoever... They think
entirely of headcount and if they can get two or three foreign heads for the
cost of one domestic head, they'll do it... They don't understand that you
are basically getting heads who can do little more than answer the ****in'
phone (and not all that well, even at that)...

On Sat, 09 Sep 2006 01:40:46 GMT, Jose
wrote:

The co-ops that
were sent home for *almost* wearing a skirt too short should have been
in our departments instead of the office areas.

If they "almost" wore a skirt, what =did= they wear? (or should we not
go there?

So you really are an attentive reader:-))
Havent your seen one of those skirts that are low on top and high on
the bottom?


Jose
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Yup.. These are the same people who wrote software that have us
clicking on "start" to turn off our computers,,, They comment how they
make as much if not more the ATC workers. Money doesn't seem to weed
out the bizarre so it must be the clothes they wear.....

Ducking and running.

Ben.
Jose wrote:
I laugh when I hear the term "Software Engineer". Slop shop is what I've
seen.

There is sloppy code and sloppy dress. Can you demonstrate a positive
correlation between them?

Jose
--
There are more ways to skin a cat than there are cats.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

On Fri, 8 Sep 2006 19:50:26 -0700, "Matt Barrow"
wrote:


"Roger" wrote in message
.. .
On 4 Sep 2006 05:04:28 -0700, "Jay Honeck" wrote:


I say, good for them! I don't trust any orginization that gives the
workers a dress code.

Small wonder the IT field is now over in Asia.

It aint the way they dress, they work a *lot* cheaper than we did.
And the company I worked for still has their own IT forces. I use
plural as there is both the corporate of which I was part, and then
all but the smallest sites have their own.

Unfortunately when we went with a large contract for pre loaded PCs
(Thousands of PCs) from a company notorious for requiring every one to
wear suits we really got screwed.




Next time you get waited on by some scraggy guy with tattoos, body piercing
and spiked hair, don't complain.

I did differentiate between computer geeks, ATC and restaurants.

However, I typically eat at ye ol' greasy spoon. Oriental restaurants,
the occasional curry house and the mom and pop restaurants with home
cooking. OK so I do go to Hooters and the local sports bar once in a
while. I do like their uniforms.





Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Sat, 09 Sep 2006 05:20:43 GMT, "Grumman-581"
wrote:

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...
Small wonder the IT field is now over in Asia.

No, it's going over there because the upper level managers who make these
sorts of decisions have no technical knowledge whatsoever... They think
entirely of headcount and if they can get two or three foreign heads for the
cost of one domestic head, they'll do it... They don't understand that you
are basically getting heads who can do little more than answer the ****in'
phone (and not all that well, even at that)...

To be fair there are a lot of good programmers in India. They come
over here to get their degrees and then go back home to work for
peanuts compared to what we were paid. OTOH that is a fortune compared
to others in the same country. And these programmers aren't the ones
answering the phone. Like here, the help departments are the newest
hires at the bottom of the totem pole. I sometimes think they are on
the help line to practice their English because I know I've gotten
some who had no idea as to what I'd been saying.

I don't know how many times I had to explain the one problem, but
finally the woman on the other end gave me step-by-step instructions
as to what I should do. She finally understood (I think) when I
explained I'd been trying to tell here I'd already done that.
Unfortunately I'd reached a point which was beyond her and I was
passed on to another person.

OTOH some of the worst companies to deal with are state side and will
happily... er... never mind. just read Gripe Line on Verizon.



Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

"Grumman-581" wrote in message
...
"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ps.com...
You think there's no one waiting in the wings to bid against
Lockheed-Martin?

I'll bet there's at least half a dozen companies, all willing to bid on
the ATC contract, all promising to do it "cheaper-faster-better"...

Who will just hire the LM workers as contractors and all you've done is
change the upper management...

Kinda like the Yankee's and Billy (I didn't punch that doggie)Martin...

Jose wrote:
I laugh when I hear the term "Software Engineer". Slop shop is what
I've
seen.

There is sloppy code and sloppy dress. Can you demonstrate a positive
correlation between them?

Yes.

Hint: Ghetto.