FLARM - No GPS

If there was GPS jamming it would have affected the ClearNav and the
Streak, wouldn't it?

Today I removed the unit from the aluminum plate, reloaded the latest
firmware, performed a factory reset and - it still did not work. I had
the unit removed from the ship and had replaced the external antennae
with the rubber duckies. Yes, they were connected to the proper inputs.

The log file appears to show a proper start up with no faults. So where
do I go from here? Is there an internal battery which may have gone
dead rendering the GPS stupid? This thing sat for years before I
acquired it. Is there someone in the US who can repair these?

I've brought home all the files recovered from the PF portable in case
they're of any use to someone who knows how to use them. I've run out
of airspeed, altitude, and ideas all at the same time.

Dan

On 11/25/2016 2:03 PM, Dan Daly wrote:
snip
Was there GPS jamming notam'd at the time?

--
Dan, 5J

On Fri, 25 Nov 2016 18:33:43 -0700, Dan Marotta wrote:

If there was GPS jamming it would have affected the ClearNav and the
Streak, wouldn't it?

Today I removed the unit from the aluminum plate, reloaded the latest
firmware, performed a factory reset and - it still did not work. I had
the unit removed from the ship and had replaced the external antennae
with the rubber duckies. Yes, they were connected to the proper inputs.

The log file appears to show a proper start up with no faults. So where
do I go from here?

Here's a quick list of the interesting stuff in the IGC logs written by
FLARM equipment. This comes from one of my Red Box FLARM logs but a PF
should log much the same data.

The first character on each line in the log is always the record type, so
in the following I refer to a line starting with A as the 'A record'.

The GPS type should be given by an H record. These are grouped together
and should immediately follow the A record. There are typically 10-15 H
records (my Red Box FLARM outputs 14). The one starting with "HFGPS"
gives the GPS type details preceded by the characters "HFGPS" and filling
the rest of the line.

If the GPS is working the log should include an F record from time to
time. This lists the navigation satellites (GPS, Glonass or Gallileo)
that the GPS can see. A new F record is written each time the set of
visible satellites changes. For what you're trying to find out, the F
record just confirms that your PF is seeing satellites

Apart from this, the rest of my Red Box logs are mainly B and L records.

Each B record is a 3D point showing where the glider is at the time the
record was written - no GPS signal means you won't see these in the log.

L records are proprietary to FLARM. AFAIK their formats are not
published so I don't know what they contain. However, its an easy guess
that their contents includes the data used by the FLARM range analysis
tool, i.e. the range and bearings of any other FLARM units yours is
talking to.

I hope the above is some use to you.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

Thanks for the information, Martin.

Here are results from the last IGC file generated by my portable unit:

HFGPSType:u-blox LEA-6A
..
..
..
F19130905101315182021252629

But all of these were recorded while my portable was receiving GPS
signals. Now that it doesn't receive the GPS signals, it does not
create an IGC file... I'm getting the feeling that there's no recourse
but to send it back for testing and repair. I wonder if there's any
warranty for a 4-6 year old unit that was just placed into service a
month ago. Probably not.

Dan


On 11/26/2016 3:11 PM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Fri, 25 Nov 2016 18:33:43 -0700, Dan Marotta wrote:

If there was GPS jamming it would have affected the ClearNav and the
Streak, wouldn't it?

Today I removed the unit from the aluminum plate, reloaded the latest
firmware, performed a factory reset and - it still did not work. I had
the unit removed from the ship and had replaced the external antennae
with the rubber duckies. Yes, they were connected to the proper inputs.

The log file appears to show a proper start up with no faults. So where
do I go from here?

Here's a quick list of the interesting stuff in the IGC logs written by
FLARM equipment. This comes from one of my Red Box FLARM logs but a PF
should log much the same data.

The first character on each line in the log is always the record type, so
in the following I refer to a line starting with A as the 'A record'.

The GPS type should be given by an H record. These are grouped together
and should immediately follow the A record. There are typically 10-15 H
records (my Red Box FLARM outputs 14). The one starting with "HFGPS"
gives the GPS type details preceded by the characters "HFGPS" and filling
the rest of the line.

If the GPS is working the log should include an F record from time to
time. This lists the navigation satellites (GPS, Glonass or Gallileo)
that the GPS can see. A new F record is written each time the set of
visible satellites changes. For what you're trying to find out, the F
record just confirms that your PF is seeing satellites

Apart from this, the rest of my Red Box logs are mainly B and L records.

Each B record is a 3D point showing where the glider is at the time the
record was written - no GPS signal means you won't see these in the log.

L records are proprietary to FLARM. AFAIK their formats are not
published so I don't know what they contain. However, its an easy guess
that their contents includes the data used by the FLARM range analysis
tool, i.e. the range and bearings of any other FLARM units yours is
talking to.

I hope the above is some use to you.



--
Dan, 5J

No

On 11/24/2016 11:46 AM, wrote:
Are you using multiple GPS antennas? They can influence each other when in close proximity.


--
Dan, 5J

I don't know if it's the same with the Powerflarms, but the old units output some error codes if there is a problem with the GPS module. This information can be read on the serial port during startup.

On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 10:55:37 -0700, Dan Marotta wrote:

Thanks for the information, Martin.

Here are results from the last IGC file generated by my portable unit:

HFGPSType:u-blox LEA-6A .
.
.
F19130905101315182021252629

But all of these were recorded while my portable was receiving GPS
signals. Now that it doesn't receive the GPS signals, it does not
create an IGC file... I'm getting the feeling that there's no recourse
but to send it back for testing and repair.

If the PF can't read the A and H records and write them to the beginning
of the log maybe its got bigger problems than not finding the GRS
receiver, so at least contacting Flarm or the local rep to report that
your PF is not even writing the A and H records to the log and quoting
its serial number at them may be a good start. After all, it was working
and suddenly now its not.

*** One thought does occur: does the memory stick / SD card you're trying
to write the log to have a write protect switch? If so, it may be worth
making sure that its set to 'write' and trying the start the PF again if
it was write protected.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

At 19:45 27 November 2016, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 10:55:37 -0700, Dan Marotta wrote:

Thanks for the information, Martin.

Here are results from the last IGC file generated by my portable unit:

HFGPSType:u-blox LEA-6A .
.
.
F19130905101315182021252629

But all of these were recorded while my portable was receiving GPS
signals. Now that it doesn't receive the GPS signals, it does not
create an IGC file... I'm getting the feeling that there's no recourse
but to send it back for testing and repair.

If the PF can't read the A and H records and write them to the beginning
of the log maybe its got bigger problems than not finding the GRS
receiver, so at least contacting Flarm or the local rep to report that
your PF is not even writing the A and H records to the log and quoting
its serial number at them may be a good start. After all, it was working
and suddenly now its not.

*** One thought does occur: does the memory stick / SD card you're trying

to write the log to have a write protect switch? If so, it may be worth
making sure that its set to 'write' and trying the start the PF again if
it was write protected.

Interesting...

ANY IGC-approved recorder should record a file even if there is no GPS
signal. This is so it can act as an Electronic Barograph. This is written
into the IGC Specification.

Note: SeeYou will not display a file without GPS data, nonetheless a file
should be created.

An IGC file should be created once the minimum movement has been detected.
Without a GPS signal this will be a vertical movement (launch).

If no file is created, this needs to be resolved. I seem to recall that
Flarm use the Real-Time Clock on the GPS board and if Flarm cannot read the
RTC, who knows?

On the subject of SD cards, before reformatting, please read
https://www.sdcard.org/downloads/formatter_4/

An incorrectly formatted SD card is to be avoided.

--

Good thought about the SD card; it is/was not write protected. To
verify, I deleted everything in it (after saving to my hard drive),
reinserted it into the PF, took it out side, froze my butt off, powered
it up, and waited. No joy...

Before shutting it down I created a diagnostic dump file which can be
looked at HERE
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gbf2xgoij6kb98r/PFP00960.DMP?dl=0 if you
know how. I also copied the log file to my drop box HERE
https://www.dropbox.com/s/typrd4dz1a4g69t/PFP00960.TXT?dl=0. Reading
it, it appears that the unit talked with the GPS and everything was OK,
but it never received any satellites. That makes no sense unless
there's a problem with the internal GPS antenna or circuit wiring.

The log file implies to me that, during startup, the unit was looking
for other files which it did not find. When I acquired the unit, it
started right up without an SD card (which I purchased later). What
might that mean?

Dan

On 11/27/2016 2:24 PM, Tim Newport-Peace wrote:
At 19:45 27 November 2016, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 10:55:37 -0700, Dan Marotta wrote:

Thanks for the information, Martin.

Here are results from the last IGC file generated by my portable unit:

HFGPSType:u-blox LEA-6A .
.
.
F19130905101315182021252629

But all of these were recorded while my portable was receiving GPS
signals. Now that it doesn't receive the GPS signals, it does not
create an IGC file... I'm getting the feeling that there's no recourse
but to send it back for testing and repair.

If the PF can't read the A and H records and write them to the beginning
of the log maybe its got bigger problems than not finding the GRS
receiver, so at least contacting Flarm or the local rep to report that
your PF is not even writing the A and H records to the log and quoting
its serial number at them may be a good start. After all, it was working
and suddenly now its not.

*** One thought does occur: does the memory stick / SD card you're trying
to write the log to have a write protect switch? If so, it may be worth
making sure that its set to 'write' and trying the start the PF again if
it was write protected.

Interesting...

ANY IGC-approved recorder should record a file even if there is no GPS
signal. This is so it can act as an Electronic Barograph. This is written
into the IGC Specification.

Note: SeeYou will not display a file without GPS data, nonetheless a file
should be created.

An IGC file should be created once the minimum movement has been detected.
Without a GPS signal this will be a vertical movement (launch).

If no file is created, this needs to be resolved. I seem to recall that
Flarm use the Real-Time Clock on the GPS board and if Flarm cannot read the
RTC, who knows?

On the subject of SD cards, before reformatting, please read
https://www.sdcard.org/downloads/formatter_4/

An incorrectly formatted SD card is to be avoided.


--
Dan, 5J

Dan,

I am not familiar with the log file, but the last lines of the log file
read:

00336.753 ERROR Insufficient supply voltage, shutting down
00336.754 ERROR Battery type: alkaline
00336.754 ERROR Battery voltage: 4.28
00336.755 ERROR External supply voltage: 0.00

Could this be a clue?

Best regards,

Tim.
--
At 21:34 27 November 2016, Dan Marotta wrote:
Good thought about the SD card; it is/was not write protected. To
verify, I deleted everything in it (after saving to my hard drive),
reinserted it into the PF, took it out side, froze my butt off, powered
it up, and waited. No joy...

Before shutting it down I created a diagnostic dump file which can be
looked at HERE
if you
know how. I also copied the log file to my drop box HERE
. Reading
it, it appears that the unit talked with the GPS and everything was OK,
but it never received any satellites. That makes no sense unless
there's a problem with the internal GPS antenna or circuit wiring.

The log file implies to me that, during startup, the unit was looking
for other files which it did not find. When I acquired the unit, it
started right up without an SD card (which I purchased later). What
might that mean?

Dan

On 11/27/2016 2:24 PM, Tim Newport-Peace wrote:
At 19:45 27 November 2016, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 10:55:37 -0700, Dan Marotta wrote:

Thanks for the information, Martin.

Here are results from the last IGC file generated by my portable
unit:

HFGPSType:u-blox LEA-6A .
.
.
F19130905101315182021252629

But all of these were recorded while my portable was receiving GPS
signals. Now that it doesn't receive the GPS signals, it does not
create an IGC file... I'm getting the feeling that there's no
recourse
but to send it back for testing and repair.

If the PF can't read the A and H records and write them to the
beginning
of the log maybe its got bigger problems than not finding the GRS
receiver, so at least contacting Flarm or the local rep to report that
your PF is not even writing the A and H records to the log and quoting
its serial number at them may be a good start. After all, it was
working
and suddenly now its not.

*** One thought does occur: does the memory stick / SD card you're
trying
to write the log to have a write protect switch? If so, it may be
worth
making sure that its set to 'write' and trying the start the PF again
if
it was write protected.

Interesting...

ANY IGC-approved recorder should record a file even if there is no GPS
signal. This is so it can act as an Electronic Barograph. This is
written
into the IGC Specification.

Note: SeeYou will not display a file without GPS data, nonetheless a
file
should be created.

An IGC file should be created once the minimum movement has been
detected.
Without a GPS signal this will be a vertical movement (launch).

If no file is created, this needs to be resolved. I seem to recall that
Flarm use the Real-Time Clock on the GPS board and if Flarm cannot read
the
RTC, who knows?

On the subject of SD cards, before reformatting, please read
https://www.sdcard.org/downloads/formatter_4/

An incorrectly formatted SD card is to be avoided.


--
Dan, 5J

Have you considered replacing your batteries in the Portable?

From the last few lines of your dmp file.

00336.753 ERROR Insufficient supply voltage, shutting down
00336.754 ERROR Battery type: alkaline
00336.754 ERROR Battery voltage: 4.28
00336.755 ERROR External supply voltage: 0.00

Bob

On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 14:34:15 -0700, Dan Marotta
wrote:

Good thought about the SD card; it is/was not write protected. To
verify, I deleted everything in it (after saving to my hard drive),
reinserted it into the PF, took it out side, froze my butt off, powered
it up, and waited. No joy...

Before shutting it down I created a diagnostic dump file which can be
looked at HERE
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gbf2xgoij6kb98r/PFP00960.DMP?dl=0 if you
know how. I also copied the log file to my drop box HERE
https://www.dropbox.com/s/typrd4dz1a4g69t/PFP00960.TXT?dl=0. Reading
it, it appears that the unit talked with the GPS and everything was OK,
but it never received any satellites. That makes no sense unless
there's a problem with the internal GPS antenna or circuit wiring.

The log file implies to me that, during startup, the unit was looking
for other files which it did not find. When I acquired the unit, it
started right up without an SD card (which I purchased later). What
might that mean?

Dan

On 11/27/2016 2:24 PM, Tim Newport-Peace wrote:
At 19:45 27 November 2016, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 10:55:37 -0700, Dan Marotta wrote:

Thanks for the information, Martin.

Here are results from the last IGC file generated by my portable unit:

HFGPSType:u-blox LEA-6A .
.
.
F19130905101315182021252629

But all of these were recorded while my portable was receiving GPS
signals. Now that it doesn't receive the GPS signals, it does not
create an IGC file... I'm getting the feeling that there's no recourse
but to send it back for testing and repair.

If the PF can't read the A and H records and write them to the beginning
of the log maybe its got bigger problems than not finding the GRS
receiver, so at least contacting Flarm or the local rep to report that
your PF is not even writing the A and H records to the log and quoting
its serial number at them may be a good start. After all, it was working
and suddenly now its not.

*** One thought does occur: does the memory stick / SD card you're trying
to write the log to have a write protect switch? If so, it may be worth
making sure that its set to 'write' and trying the start the PF again if
it was write protected.

Interesting...

ANY IGC-approved recorder should record a file even if there is no GPS
signal. This is so it can act as an Electronic Barograph. This is written
into the IGC Specification.

Note: SeeYou will not display a file without GPS data, nonetheless a file
should be created.

An IGC file should be created once the minimum movement has been detected.
Without a GPS signal this will be a vertical movement (launch).

If no file is created, this needs to be resolved. I seem to recall that
Flarm use the Real-Time Clock on the GPS board and if Flarm cannot read the
RTC, who knows?

On the subject of SD cards, before reformatting, please read
https://www.sdcard.org/downloads/formatter_4/

An incorrectly formatted SD card is to be avoided.