T-34A

Texas Air Aces, T-34A out of Hooks Airport north of Houston, crashed
this morning (Tuesday). Both in aircraft deceased.

Flight (two A/C) had not started air combat maneuvers per media and
did not have a mid air????? if you can believe the media. Other A/C
retured to Hooks and landed safely.

Sone media talk on tonights news is that wing failed but nothing
official from TAA or FAA.

Other than deaths, aircraft type and organization have nothing else at
this time.

If/when more data is released, will post.

Big John

Evening news

Don Wiley, owner of Texas Air Aces, was pilot in bird. Passenger has
not been identified as next of kin have not been notified.

Ground witinesses say wing broke and came off (not mid air).

My condolences to the families.

Will track for any other data.


Big John



..



On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:12:20 -0600, Big John
wrote:

Texas Air Aces, T-34A out of Hooks Airport north of Houston, crashed
this morning (Tuesday). Both in aircraft deceased.

Flight (two A/C) had not started air combat maneuvers per media and
did not have a mid air????? if you can believe the media. Other A/C
retured to Hooks and landed safely.

Sone media talk on tonights news is that wing failed but nothing
official from TAA or FAA.

Other than deaths, aircraft type and organization have nothing else at
this time.

If/when more data is released, will post.

Big John

In article , Big John
wrote:

Ground witinesses say wing broke and came off (not mid air).

The big question will be: "Did it have the spar mod per the AD?"

According to the Houston Chronicle this morning, they reported that the
Air Aces PR material/website claimed the aircraft had the "baron" spars.
The chronicle does not specifically address wether it was a midair or a
wing failure, but also did not address any damage to the other bird if
it WAS a midair of somekind.

The Chronicle also indicated the accident aircraft was on leaseback
(well.. owned by someone other than Don).

www.chron.com (sorry.. i read it in print, not online).

Blue Skies Don.. Sorry I never got a change to meet you in person while
flyin around up at Hooks

Dave Staten, PPSEL, RN, EMT-Paramedic
KSPX (closed)/KEFD/KLVJ

EDR wrote:
In article , Big John
wrote:


Ground witinesses say wing broke and came off (not mid air).


The big question will be: "Did it have the spar mod per the AD?"

On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 00:48:56 GMT, EDR wrote in
Message-Id: :

In article , Big John
wrote:

Ground witinesses say wing broke and came off (not mid air).

The big question will be: "Did it have the spar mod per the AD?"

That question seems to have been answered.

Another question that no one seems to be asking is, what prevented the
pilot and student from employing their parachutes as would be
expected?

Another question that no one seems to be asking is, what prevented the
pilot and student from employing their parachutes as would be
expected?

When a wing comes off, the resulting centrifigal forces become to great
for a person to claw their way out.

In article ,
EDR wrote:

Another question that no one seems to be asking is, what prevented the
pilot and student from employing their parachutes as would be
expected?

When a wing comes off, the resulting centrifigal forces become to great
for a person to claw their way out.

Then how the heck did those guys claw their way out of Mustangs, 109s,
Hamps, B-17s, etc, etc.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 14:38:22 GMT, EDR wrote in
Message-Id: :


Another question that no one seems to be asking is, what prevented the
pilot and student from employing their parachutes as would be
expected?

When a wing comes off, the resulting centrifigal forces become to great
for a person to claw their way out.

Of course we don't know the forces experienced by those pilots during
their final moments with most of one wing missing. But I would guess,
that with only one wing generating lift, the aircraft entered a rapid
roll and dove for the ground. If that was indeed the final flight
mode, and the CG were not centered on the pilots(s), then they would
indeed experience G forces.

In my estimation, it is likely the pilot(s) were positioned above the
CG, and would have experienced centrifugal force in the direction
toward the canopy. Perhaps the severed portion of the wing hit the
cabin when it separated and frustrated their egress.

Larry Dighera wrote

Another question that no one seems to be asking is, what
prevented the pilot and student from employing their parachutes
as would be expected?

Getting out of an airplane with a parachute was difficult enough
that the Navy required us to complete a "bailout" training program
using a T-34 bailout trainer. It consisted of the fuselage and
no wings but a lot of foam stuff to land on. The engine was running.
Not a simple task even considering that the trainer was static.
I have a hard time imagining someone (trained, or not) getting out
of an airplane with one wing missing doing it's death gyrations.
If you track the survivors of damaged aerobatic aircraft, you will
find very few who successfully bailed out even though they were
wearing parachutes. I know of only one airshow pilot in recent years
that completed a successful bailout.
FAR 91.307 is nothing but a big farce. I strap a parachute on my 70
year old neighbor and go out to enjoy some acro in a YAK-52, now we
are perfectly legal, but what are his chances of using that parachute
if required?...I'm not even required to instruct him on the location
of the rip cord! I'm not sure that I could get out of an airplane
gyrating with one wing missing, the forces encountered might even
prevent one from raising his arms to open the canopy.

Bob Moore

On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 15:03:35 GMT, Robert Moore
wrote in Message-Id:
:

Larry Dighera wrote

Another question that no one seems to be asking is, what
prevented the pilot and student from employing their parachutes
as would be expected?

Getting out of an airplane with a parachute was difficult enough
that the Navy required us to complete a "bailout" training program
using a T-34 bailout trainer. It consisted of the fuselage and
no wings but a lot of foam stuff to land on. The engine was running.
Not a simple task even considering that the trainer was static.

In your experience, specifically what did you find hindered your
egress?

I have a hard time imagining someone (trained, or not) getting out
of an airplane with one wing missing doing it's death gyrations.

Thankfully, I have no firsthand experience bailing out of a damaged
aircraft, but I can imagine the difficulty accomplishing egress under
hi-g.

If you track the survivors of damaged aerobatic aircraft, you will
find very few who successfully bailed out even though they were
wearing parachutes.

I'm having difficulty parsing that sentence. Are you saying those
survivors rode their damaged aerobatic aircraft to the ground, because
they couldn't manage egress, and yet they survived?! Or are you
saying, that many survivors of damaged aerobatic aircraft successfully
bailed out without waring parachutes? :-)

I know of only one airshow pilot in recent years
that completed a successful bailout.

How many do you know of that were unsuccessful?

FAR 91.307 is nothing but a big farce. I strap a parachute on my 70
year old neighbor and go out to enjoy some acro in a YAK-52, now we
are perfectly legal, but what are his chances of using that parachute
if required?...I'm not even required to instruct him on the location
of the rip cord!

I have no idea what his chances might be.

I'm not sure that I could get out of an airplane
gyrating with one wing missing, the forces encountered might even
prevent one from raising his arms to open the canopy.

With only one wing generating lift, I would expect the aircraft to
roll rapidly (something like a snap roll) in the direction of the
missing wing in a near vertical, nose-down attitude. If the pilot
were positioned above the CG, it would seem that centrifugal force
would act to force him toward the canopy. However, if the roll was
not occurring centered on the longitudinal axis (as in a barrel roll),
that wouldn't be the case. It's difficult to predict.