Pathetic Pilot Salaries

"Vic" wrote in message
m...
Hi,

I am a 35 year old software programmer thinking about a possible
career change into aviation. I am currently working on my PPL.
I've come to know some pilots who are currently flying for ASA and
Comair. Both of them made UNDER 17,000.00 last year. They are both
young guys without families, homes,etc.. so it's a bit easier for
them to ride this through. Anyhow, since I haven't made up my mind
yet, I would love to hear from any of you who have been in a similar
situation. Especially if you are around my age, made the switch from a
previous career, are married, have children and a mortgage. You get my
point. How do you pay continue to pay the bills? I will obviously take
a huge hit salary speaking, but I was shocked at how low the starting
salaries are!! With my wife, children and mortgage, I could qualify
for food stamps on that kind of pay. Also, since that would put my
family below the poverty level, would I even have to pay income tax?
Not to mention I will also have to make payments on student loans if
I choose to go ahead with this.

My CFI tells me to avoid the regionals at all costs. He suggests
flying corporate, but after some research the starting salaries for a
corporate pilot seem to be just as low. He also said that in a few
years there will be a pilot shortage. If there is a pilot shortage in
3-5 years, what does this actually mean for newly rated commercial
pilots who are looking for their first job? If anyone has any thoughts
I would love to hear them. Thanks in advance!

Vic

Salaries will always be low in an occupation considered to be glamorous.

Mike
MU-2

On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:04:29 +0000 (UTC), Paul Tomblin wrote:
In a previous article, "William W. Plummer" said:
user wrote:

snip
Personally, I prefer working in IT, where the surest way to get
a huge pay increase is simply to threaten to quit. ;-)

Threatening to quit works until you are about 35 years old. Maybe a bit
longer if you walk on water. But later in life you can expect to be
pushed out in favor of younger, technology-current engineers.

There is no hard and fast rule that says you can't stay technology-current
as you age. I started off doing FORTRAN on mainframes, went to C and
Unix, then C++ and Unix, and here I am at 44 doing Java on Linux, making
50% more than I was making when I was 35. And every step up the ladder
was done by identifying what I wanted to do next and teaching myself.


Unfortunately, that's unusual. My experience is that most developers
stop learning at about age 30. From that point on, they stagnate and
die. I can't count the number of times I've interviewed people,
asked them to tell me about an article/book/etc discussing current
technology and IT issues.... and find they haven't cracked a book
since college.

What's the next technology trend? I don't know, but I'm damn sure I'm
going to teach it to myself before Java on Linux jobs dry up. Although I
have a nagging suspicion that my next "technology" will be "how to manage
a team of programmers in India to make sure that what they produce isn't a
giant cluster **** like every other outsourcing project I've seen".


Oh, but it worked so WELL at GC.....

- Rich

On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:33:05 GMT, William W. Plummer wrote:
Paul Tomblin wrote:

In a previous article, "William W. Plummer" said:

user wrote:

snip

Personally, I prefer working in IT, where the surest way to get
a huge pay increase is simply to threaten to quit. ;-)

Threatening to quit works until you are about 35 years old. Maybe a bit
longer if you walk on water. But later in life you can expect to be
pushed out in favor of younger, technology-current engineers.


There is no hard and fast rule that says you can't stay technology-current
as you age. I started off doing FORTRAN on mainframes, went to C and
Unix, then C++ and Unix, and here I am at 44 doing Java on Linux, making
50% more than I was making when I was 35. And every step up the ladder
was done by identifying what I wanted to do next and teaching myself.

What's the next technology trend? I don't know, but I'm damn sure I'm
going to teach it to myself before Java on Linux jobs dry up. Although I
have a nagging suspicion that my next "technology" will be "how to manage
a team of programmers in India to make sure that what they produce isn't a
giant cluster **** like every other outsourcing project I've seen".

I agree and have a very parallel career to yours. But at about your
age, I got into management. And wound up doing DoD acquisitions work.
Technical work is much more satisfying (like flying!), but doesn't pay
as well and you don't get the management bonuses. I'm partially retired
now and can't quite justify purchasing "Dot Net" and taking classes.


That really depends where you work. Even after the dot-com bust,
you can find good development jobs that pay in the high 5/low
6 figures, and include substantial bonuses. Granted, they're not
easy to find, but they are there.


And you are right about labor in India. Once they master the
technology, we will be the customer and will completely lack the ability
to compete.

Depends on the field. With one glaring exception, I've always worked
at manufacturing companies that are in need of constant systems changes
on the shop floor. When it comes to that kind of work, you need IT
people who can regularly walk around the machines on a regular basis,
and see what needs to be done. You're not going to get rapid and
relevant suggestions from a guy 6000 miles away who can't put
his hands on the binder, for example. But you'll going to have to
be the kind of developer who doesn't mind crawling around and getting
dirty, to make sure you're doing the right thing for what your
company needs. And if you're the sort of person who develops
only systems that don't need a hands-on-approach - well, all I can
say is, you'd better have some money saved up for a career change
10 years from now.

- Rich

"Vic" wrote in message
Anyhow, since I haven't made up my mind
yet, I would love to hear from any of you who have been in a similar
situation.

Virtually ALL of the thirtysomething pilots at the FBO I'm working out of
have at least a part-time regular job. My CFII is a Major in the air
national guard and a real estate agent.
Not sure what the other's do, but I work in computers too. (Same age, same
situation except no kids.) Just finishing up my IFR work, going for
commercial, figure my goal is just to pay off the education loan I took out
to get my commercial rating.

Good luck.

"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message news:cgnf1d$js6

Although I have a nagging suspicion that my next "technology" will be
"how to manage
a team of programmers in India to make sure that what they produce isn't a
giant cluster **** like every other outsourcing project I've seen".

*sigh* Truth right there. :
-c

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
news:zRHXc.126

Salaries will always be low in an occupation considered to be glamorous.

The people paying the salaries, and the pilots earning them, ought to know
better. Salaries should always be high in an occupation considered (by the
general public) to be dangerous.

-c

Vic,
I'm in almost the same exact situation (34, married, 2 kids, I.T. manager,
LOVE flying) and browsed different aviation career routes. I came to the
following conclusions:

1) Supporting the family is #1 and taking a big salary cut to expand a hobby
no matter how passionate you are about it is selfish--bordering on stupid
2) Flying is a tough life. My wife was a flight attendant for eight years
and the schedules stink. Her sister still does it and she's away from her
kids for many days at a time. Check out the divorce rate for airline pilots.
I hear they're high.
3) The ups and downs of the industry coupled with that seniority thing sucks
4) For many pilots, flying may lose its luster if you start feeling like a
glorified bus driver. Doesn't happen to all, mind you, but some.

With that, I've decided to:
* stay in IT
* get into management for the higher salaries
* buy a plane (kept it simple and [relatively] cheap--got a Piper Warrior)

99% of my flying is for pleasure. This became clear when my instructor
visited from his regional job and flew my plane. He had a ball simply
because it was all for fun with no procedures and no "must be there"
atmosphere present. I suspect that you are exploring a career as a pilot to
satisfy your passion of flying. What I'm trying to do now is get an IT job
in an aviation-related line of work. These positions are rare (especially
for Software Quality Assurance Management) and the timing may never connect
but if I'm lucky, it may present itself. The ultimate dream of course is to
become wealthy (lotto, owning your own business, whatever) and fly my own
personal jet (Citation or L-39--hey, I'm not picky). Most importantly, being
able to take the time off to fly as much as possible.

Take a long hard look at your situation. Maybe aircraft
ownership/partnership will satisfy your aviation bug enough to make it worth
while.

Good Luck,

Marco



"Vic" wrote in message
m...
Hi,

I am a 35 year old software programmer thinking about a possible
career change into aviation. I am currently working on my PPL.
I've come to know some pilots who are currently flying for ASA and
Comair. Both of them made UNDER 17,000.00 last year. They are both
young guys without families, homes,etc.. so it's a bit easier for
them to ride this through. Anyhow, since I haven't made up my mind
yet, I would love to hear from any of you who have been in a similar
situation. Especially if you are around my age, made the switch from a
previous career, are married, have children and a mortgage. You get my
point. How do you pay continue to pay the bills? I will obviously take
a huge hit salary speaking, but I was shocked at how low the starting
salaries are!! With my wife, children and mortgage, I could qualify
for food stamps on that kind of pay. Also, since that would put my
family below the poverty level, would I even have to pay income tax?
Not to mention I will also have to make payments on student loans if
I choose to go ahead with this.

My CFI tells me to avoid the regionals at all costs. He suggests
flying corporate, but after some research the starting salaries for a
corporate pilot seem to be just as low. He also said that in a few
years there will be a pilot shortage. If there is a pilot shortage in
3-5 years, what does this actually mean for newly rated commercial
pilots who are looking for their first job? If anyone has any thoughts
I would love to hear them. Thanks in advance!

Vic

On 27 Aug 2004 06:02:10 -0700, (Vic) wrote:

Hi,

I am a 35 year old software programmer thinking about a possible
career change into aviation. I am currently working on my PPL.
I've come to know some pilots who are currently flying for ASA and
Comair. Both of them made UNDER 17,000.00 last year.

This will likely come as a huge shock to most who read this group but
Michael Moore, who is a virtual anti-christ, if my reading of the
group political direction is accurate, spent almost an entire chapter
in his best selling book "Stupid White Men" ranting about this
situation.

He was appalled. The only similar situation in the US to the amount
of training and certification, plus the enormous responsibility
necessary versus the pathetic payscale is teacher salaries. He ranted
about them too. But I think most teachers actually get paid more.

Corky Scott

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
.net...

"Vic" wrote in message
m...
Hi,

Vic

Salaries will always be low in an occupation considered to be glamorous.

Salaries will always be low (except for a VERY select few) in anything where
people PAY to do what someone else wants to get PAID to do.

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
.net...

"Vic" wrote in message
m...
Hi,

I am a 35 year old software programmer thinking about a possible
career change into aviation. I am currently working on my PPL.
I've come to know some pilots who are currently flying for ASA and
Comair. Both of them made UNDER 17,000.00 last year. They are both
young guys without families, homes,etc.. so it's a bit easier for
them to ride this through. Anyhow, since I haven't made up my mind
yet, I would love to hear from any of you who have been in a similar
situation. Especially if you are around my age, made the switch from a
previous career, are married, have children and a mortgage. You get my
point. How do you pay continue to pay the bills? I will obviously take
a huge hit salary speaking, but I was shocked at how low the starting
salaries are!! With my wife, children and mortgage, I could qualify
for food stamps on that kind of pay. Also, since that would put my
family below the poverty level, would I even have to pay income tax?
Not to mention I will also have to make payments on student loans if
I choose to go ahead with this.

My CFI tells me to avoid the regionals at all costs. He suggests
flying corporate, but after some research the starting salaries for a
corporate pilot seem to be just as low. He also said that in a few
years there will be a pilot shortage. If there is a pilot shortage in
3-5 years, what does this actually mean for newly rated commercial
pilots who are looking for their first job? If anyone has any thoughts
I would love to hear them. Thanks in advance!

Vic

Salaries will always be low in an occupation considered to be glamorous.

Mike
MU-2


They know your addicted and would do it for free!