Planning HPN to SAF

Bill wrote:
often
impractical to go IFR because they force you so high. You will also
find
that in many areas in the West that they make you fly well above the
MEAs even on victor airways. Complaining doesn't help.

Bill:

the victor airway LVS-TAFOY-SAF has MEAs of 12.3 over LVS, 8.4 at TAFOY
and 11.3 at SAF.

However, let me reiterate...assuming VMC, there's no reason to file
IFR for LVS-TAFOY-SAF. It can safely and easily be done at 10.5 or
even 8.5 as VFR.

Now, if the weather isn't good, that's another story. But still, the
12.3 point in the LVS block is west of LVS itself. LVS itself is
only 6900. V60 to TAFOY then V62 to SAF avoids cumulo granite. It's
V190 and V263 that run right into them thar hills.

Second issue is "mountains". Those of us that live out here do not
fly "in the mountains" as a rule in a single engine aircraft. Well,
maybe in a Pilatus, but certainly not in my cherokee 180. Even
something higher performance will still require careful planning
and most people will head straight for the passes and not go
over the tops. The LVS-TAFOY-SAF route is very practical and a
wise choice for someone who's never been out here before.

There's a number of mountain flying CFIs on this list who can
provide more insight. There are a number of CAP pilots on this
list also, who *have* flown single-engine "in the mountains" out
here -- and they're very-very-very-VERY good and wise pilots.

John R. Copeland wrote:
Adding another item -- The runways at the Santa Fe airport can be
fiendishly hard to see from a distance.
The pavement seems to blend in to the surrounding sand.
I'd suggest planning on an instrument approach regardless of weather.

Nah...Come right over the SAF VOR, follow the straight line over
the prison and there you are.

Helps to have the GPS on.

But the SAF tower is very helpful to the pilot that states "unfamiliar
with the area" and will guide you right in.

But then, just about every airport around here blends in with the
surrounding dirt.

In article , Blanche
wrote:

the victor airway LVS-TAFOY-SAF has MEAs of 12.3 over LVS, 8.4 at TAFOY
and 11.3 at SAF.


Hmmm...the chart I'm looking at (NAS) has an MEA of 10K between LVS and
TAFOY and 10K between TAFOY and SAF Vortac.

I understand that one can go lower VFR, but where do the altitudes you
quote above come from?

Tom Fleischman wrote:
wrote:

the victor airway LVS-TAFOY-SAF has MEAs of 12.3 over LVS, 8.4 at TAFOY
and 11.3 at SAF.

Hmmm...the chart I'm looking at (NAS) has an MEA of 10K between LVS and
TAFOY and 10K between TAFOY and SAF Vortac.

I understand that one can go lower VFR, but where do the altitudes you
quote above come from?

I'm looking at L5/L6 IFR Low Enroute (ok, it's July 2003 but mountains
rarely move). The square with LVS has off-route obstruction clearance alt
as 15.3 and yes, you're right (my bad...I was reading the OROCA in
a generic mode as the MEA) the MEA is 10K. Oops is all I can say.

(*sigh*)

Sorry.

"Blanche" wrote in message =
...
John R. Copeland wrote:
Adding another item -- The runways at the Santa Fe airport can be
fiendishly hard to see from a distance.
The pavement seems to blend in to the surrounding sand.
I'd suggest planning on an instrument approach regardless of weather.
=20
Nah...Come right over the SAF VOR, follow the straight line over
the prison and there you are.


Not meaning to pick nits, Blanche, but coming "right over the SAF"
isn't greatly different from the VOR Rwy 33 approach.
That's roughly the same as I suggested.
We eastern pilots can get unnerved by being unable to see a runway
ten miles away in 50-mile visibility.
I remember once telling the SAF tower I could see the airport,
but not the runway. :-[

John R. Copeland wrote:
"Blanche" wrote in message
John R. Copeland wrote:
Adding another item -- The runways at the Santa Fe airport can be
fiendishly hard to see from a distance.
The pavement seems to blend in to the surrounding sand.
I'd suggest planning on an instrument approach regardless of weather.

Nah...Come right over the SAF VOR, follow the straight line over
the prison and there you are.


Not meaning to pick nits, Blanche, but coming "right over the SAF"
isn't greatly different from the VOR Rwy 33 approach.
That's roughly the same as I suggested.
We eastern pilots can get unnerved by being unable to see a runway
ten miles away in 50-mile visibility.
I remember once telling the SAF tower I could see the airport,
but not the runway. :-[

Go ahead, pick nits...I deserved it...Since I don't fly into SAF
unless it's VMC, I never take the VOR approach...

And I can't count the number of times I've done go-arounds at
airports out here because I didn't see the runway until the last
minute and was too high, too fast or both. And sometimes, didn't
even see the airport....

"Blanche" wrote in message =
...
John R. Copeland wrote:

I remember once telling the SAF tower I could see the airport,
but not the runway. :-[
=20
Go ahead, pick nits...I deserved it...Since I don't fly into SAF
unless it's VMC, I never take the VOR approach...
=20
And I can't count the number of times I've done go-arounds at
airports out here because I didn't see the runway until the last=20
minute and was too high, too fast or both. And sometimes, didn't
even see the airport....


Oh, good. That means it's not just me. :-)
Tom Fleischman, take note!

In article , Blanche
wrote:

Tom Fleischman wrote:
wrote:

the victor airway LVS-TAFOY-SAF has MEAs of 12.3 over LVS, 8.4 at TAFOY
and 11.3 at SAF.

Hmmm...the chart I'm looking at (NAS) has an MEA of 10K between LVS and
TAFOY and 10K between TAFOY and SAF Vortac.

I understand that one can go lower VFR, but where do the altitudes you
quote above come from?

I'm looking at L5/L6 IFR Low Enroute (ok, it's July 2003 but mountains
rarely move). The square with LVS has off-route obstruction clearance alt
as 15.3 and yes, you're right (my bad...I was reading the OROCA in
a generic mode as the MEA) the MEA is 10K. Oops is all I can say.

(*sigh*)

Sorry.


No problemo....thanks for all your input

In article , John R. Copeland
wrote:

"Blanche" wrote in message
...
John R. Copeland wrote:

snip
And I can't count the number of times I've done go-arounds at
airports out here because I didn't see the runway until the last
minute and was too high, too fast or both. And sometimes, didn't
even see the airport....


Oh, good. That means it's not just me. :-)
Tom Fleischman, take note!


Thanks, I have.