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#561
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NATCA Going Down in Flames
Steven P. McNicoll wrote: "bdl" wrote in message ups.com... They aren't. You're misinformed. Not according to the AP. |
#562
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NATCA Going Down in Flames
Bob Noel wrote: In article .com, "bdl" wrote: Do you work better in a tie? I work more professionally. So naturally your experience must extrapolate to everyone else in all other jobs... Never said that. He was extrapolating his experience to me. |
#563
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NATCA Going Down in Flames
Jose wrote: Even drowsiness to the extent of incapacitation? I'm drowsy to incapacitation every night. That doesn't make me sick every night. Ok fine, whatever. |
#564
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NATCA Going Down in Flames
"bdl" wrote in message oups.com... Even drowsiness to the extent of incapacitation? Yes. The new "contract" says sick leave cannot be granted for rest. If they are so drowsy they are not at 100% for work they shouldnt' be there. FAA management disagrees with you. http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archive.../717-full.html quote Among the FAA's new work rules imposed on air traffic controllers last week was a ban on napping during breaks and, predictably perhaps, the agency and the controllers union differ on the impact of such a rule. "Even though they're on break, they can be called back to work at any time," FAA spokeswoman Laura Brown told The Associated Press. "If they had to be called back to work traffic and they had been sleeping, they would be groggy." /qoute That's simply fascinating. "Groggy" means "dazed and weakened, as from lack of sleep". So FAA management cannot permit controllers to sleep while they're on a break because if they had to be called back to work traffic and they had been sleeping, they would be suffering from a lack of sleep. It was justified. What was the justification? |
#565
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NATCA Going Down in Flames
"Allen" wrote in message ... How long is the break period? It varies. On a night shift, when a nap would be most beneficial, it could be several hours. I used to trade into many night shifts when I was taking college courses. We'd work together until the traffic died down to practically nothing, usually about an hour into the shift which began at 10PM. Then one of us would take a break for about three hours. On my break I'd study, my partner would usually nap. Before the traffic would pick up, with about an hour left in the shift, we'd be working together again. |
#566
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NATCA Going Down in Flames
"bdl" wrote in message oups.com... Not according to the AP. Absurd. If FAA management wasn't making an issue of it there'd be nothing to report. |
#567
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NATCA Going Down in Flames
"Grumman-581" wrote: Sounds like we need to fix the A/C. That's what I suggested previously... If you want to make them quit wearing shorts, just turn up the A/C... Usually it's not that simple. My company has designed and installed the HVAC controls in several tower cabs. They are a difficult cooling design problem because of the small volume and large solar radiation load. Sizing the cooling equipment for a worst case summer day will cause it to be oversized for most other cooling days, which can lead to inadequate dehumidification, particularly at night. HVAC systems are almost never designed for worst case days. -- Dan C-172RG at BFM |
#568
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NATCA Going Down in Flames
In article . com,
"bdl" wrote: Do you work better in a tie? I work more professionally. So naturally your experience must extrapolate to everyone else in all other jobs... Never said that. He was extrapolating his experience to me. "So while dockers and a collared shirt may not be as regimented as a uniform its still better in my opinion than a cavalier, anything goes attitude." -- Bob Noel Looking for a sig the lawyers will hate |
#569
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NATCA Going Down in Flames
In article ,
Larry Dighera wrote: Well, I believe Boeing and LocMart have already developed (and deployed) modern ATC systems (probably superior to the existing FAA stuff), so modernization could be much more rapid than if the FAA developed and implemented something similar. What does Boeing or LocMart have that is better or more modern than STARS (which is being deployed now)? Bob, I don't have a specific answer to your question, as I don't claim to be familiar with STARS nor Boeing/LocMart ATC systems. So why do you believe that Boeing and Locmart have already developed more modern ATC systems than the FAA has? Is STARS space-based? No. STARS uses multiple radar feeds (the typical traditional long-range and terminal radars that we all know and love). It can be upgraded with other sensor feeds as they become available. -- Bob Noel Looking for a sig the lawyers will hate |
#570
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NATCA Going Down in Flames
This is what CAMI (Civil Aeronautical Medical Institute, or something)
calls "rapidly reversing rotating schedules" or something like that. It's usually a late shift (3p-11p) followed by an earlier late shift, then a quick turnaround day shift and either two more early dayshifts, or dayshift then midshift (8 hours apart). CAMI reported this was one of the worse schedules on the human body, saying something similar to what you said, perpetual state of jetlag. Just when your body recovers, if at all, it's time to start all over again. I've been doing it for 21+ years at 3 different facilities, 2 swings, 3 days or 2 swings, 2 days, 1 mid (graveyard). One year, citing these CAMI studies, I tried to do the opposite, 3 day shifts - each one later than the prior, and 2 swing shifts. I even said I'd take the less popular days-off, like Mo/Tu or Tu/We even though I had the seniority to get whatever I wanted. Shot down, "not the way we do it or have ever done it". If I were to do those 20-25min power naps, I'd say they were extremely effective and I wouldnt get up in a daze. I'd be able to get right into the heaviest rush - IF I were to do that. But it's not for everyone, but I could come out of a snoring, drooling, REM laden snoozefest - and be ready for anything. Those that say it's not possible are wrong, based on what I've seen. Not working graveyards go a long way towards not needing them at all. This whole "contract" thing...most controllers I know just want to come to work, do their job and be left alone. Now we're getting bothered daily with "contract" interpretations, GENOT's about a wrong interpretation, told that 'flat' shoes no matter if they're dress shoes or not are not acceptable, then the opposite, then we can work credit for someone else, then we can't, that we're getting a pay cut, then pay freeze, then status quo, then supervisors are getting a 13% pay raise, followed by a possible $20k pay cut, then we can't flex in, then we can...on and on it goes. In other words, non-stop screwing around with us with rules that those enforcing them don't even understand, regardless of this fairly expensive "class" they all went to in St. Louis..on your dime. My take, it was just one big party celebrating the wide swing of the pendulum in their direction. Because they sure didnt come back very edumacated. Put simply, picture the least respected traffic dodgers, in other words someone being paid, quite a bit, to NOT do the job they were hired to do. In some cases it's been years, several, since talking to an airplane. These are the ones deciding if the shirt you have on, or the bottom of your shoe, is acceptable or not. Same ones who monday morning quarterback you about how you work traffic, nevermind they'd be downright dangerous near a scope. Now they've been given the keys to the kingdom with this contract, and they're going to town. It'll get real bad before they realize the damage they've done, and we'll all pay for it, but they won't. If some of you think controllers are overpaid, you need to get a load of these types. Paid even more to do far less. They are the problem. I like to think we (pilots and controllers) are on the same team. I'm just not sure who they think lower of, controllers (worker bee's) or the users. Rots of ruck, Chris "Morgans" wrote in message ... "Steven P. McNicoll" wrote I believe most facilities still work on a seven week rotation. Two evening shifts, followed by two day shifts, followed by two days off, then repeat. That's six days so your two days off advance by one day each week. It's juggled a bit when the two days off are on a weekend so that there's two natural weekends off in a row. That's the schedule for a facility that closes at night. At 24 hour facilities you'll get a day-mid. Come in at about six AM and then back that same day about 10 PM. I'm surprised that there are work schedules like that, still around. It seems like that would put a person in perpetual jet lag. That would put people in a state where fatigue would be unpreventable, I would think. No wonder that some think naps are needed. I would need them, I think. -- Jim in NC |
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