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50% of NAZI oil was supplied from US



 
 
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  #21  
Old October 20th 03, 02:04 AM
Michael Mcneil
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If you must feed them:

Change the title; remove cross postings; remove all reference to them;
write a completely uninflamatory few lines that touch -as this does,
only tangentially what they initiated; make salient counter arguments
about almost irrelevant topics and then bring it around in later
messages to what the fool was talking about. That way he will have to
lose his advert, the title of the thread.

What you must aim for is removing his name and fame. Next remove his
topic then bring it back as a rebuff by making a statement that answered
his original post. Better still, ignore him.


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
Ads
  #22  
Old October 20th 03, 02:22 AM
Ron
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(Michael Petukhov) wrote in message
.com...
http://www1.iraqwar.ru/iraq-read_art...=16866&lang=ru

(in russian)

The article discuss the oil balance of NAZI Germany in 37 - june 44.
The funny side is that some 50% of oil and petrolium products
were supplied by US based companies (the standard oil of New Jersey,
the standard oil of California and the Davis oil company) mainly via
Spain. This includes 100% of oil supply for NAZI subs operating in
Atlantic. All these operations were authorised by US government.


Oh I guess those German submarines must have stopped into US Harbors during
WW2, to replenish oil supplies, after raiding our convoys.

You make some silly posts, but this gets up there.

It isnt even accurate to call them Nazi subs either, since the German Navy was
not a big fan of the Nazis at all.


Ron
Pilot/Wildland Firefighter

  #23  
Old October 20th 03, 02:45 AM
Rick
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ZZBunker wrote:

You are obviously lying. Since submarines don't even don't
use oil that is made by mass marketers.



Pray tell just what kind of fuel did Diesel boats use?

Rick

  #24  
Old October 20th 03, 03:45 AM
Jim Atkins
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I think a lot of Stalin's death toll was due to things like purges, show
trials, engineered famines in the Ukraine, and other apparently acceptable
forms of behavior. Face it- totalitarian scum is totalitarian scum.

--
Jim Atkins
Twentynine Palms CA USA

"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."
- Groucho Marx


  #25  
Old October 20th 03, 03:57 AM
captain!
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and what should we do with spammers mike?

"Michael Mcneil" wrote in message
news:[email protected] .mailgate.org...
If you must feed them:

Change the title; remove cross postings; remove all reference to them;
write a completely uninflamatory few lines that touch -as this does,
only tangentially what they initiated; make salient counter arguments
about almost irrelevant topics and then bring it around in later
messages to what the fool was talking about. That way he will have to
lose his advert, the title of the thread.

What you must aim for is removing his name and fame. Next remove his
topic then bring it back as a rebuff by making a statement that answered
his original post. Better still, ignore him.


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG



  #26  
Old October 20th 03, 04:23 AM
The Enlightenment
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kirill wrote in message ...
"Fred J. McCall" wrote:

(Michael Petukhov) wrote:

:
http://www1.iraqwar.ru/iraq-read_art...=16866&lang=ru
:

SNIP
Another self-appointed expert on nothing spewing drivel. Hitler and his
allies killed 27 million Soviet citizens including 18 million civilians
(the average civilian to soldier death ratio for WWII was 2:1).


Now factor in the millions the Bolshevic Demographers conveniently
blamed on the Germans to exonerate themselves politically.



Basically
all the estimates of deaths in the USSR after the revolution that come
up with the 25 million dead figure include the civil war that killed
10 million people (Stalin wasn't in charge but Lenin and Trotsky were)


Stalin started running things in 1932 and he probably din't kill as
many as his predecessors.

After emigrating to the U.S., Rapoport visited the Ukraine in November
of 1934, less then one year after the famine created by Soviet
government
actions that killed 4 million Ukrainian peasants (Werth 1999, 159ff ).
The
peasants had resisted being forced to join collective farms and were
aided
by local Ukrainian authorities. The response of the central government
was
to arrest farmers and confiscate all grain, including reserves to be
used
for next year's harvest. Since they had no food, the peasants
attempted to
leave for the cities but were prevented from doing so by the
government. The
peasants starved by the millions. Parents abandoned starving children
before
starving themselves; cannibalism was rampant; remaining workers were
tortured to force them to hand over any remaining food. Methods of
torture
included the 'cold' method where the victim was stripped bare and left
out
in the cold, stark naked. Sometimes whole brigades of collective
workers
were treated in this fashion. In the 'hot' method, the feet and the
bottom
of the skirt of female workers were doused with gasoline and then set
alight. The flames were put out, and the process was repeated (Werth
1999,
166). During the period when the famine claimed a total of 6 million
lives
throughout the country, the government exported eighteen million
hundredweight of grain in order to obtain money for industrialization.

These horrors are unmentioned by Rapoport in his account of his
1934
visit. Instead, he paints a very positive portrait of life in the
Ukraine
under the Soviets. Life is good for the Jews. He is pleased that
Yiddish
culture is accepted not only by Jews but by non-Jews as well, a clear
indication of the privileged status of Judaism in the Soviet Union
during
this period. (For example, he recounts an incident in which a
Ukrainian
worker read a story in Yiddish to the other workers, Jews and non-Jews
alike.) Young Jews were taking advantage of new opportunities not only
in
Yiddish culture but "in the economy, in the government, in
participation in
the general life of the country" (Kann 1981, 120). Older Jews
complained
that the government was anti-religious, and young Jews complained that
Leon
Trotsky, "the national pride of the Jewish people," had been removed.
But
the message to American radicals was upbeat: "It was sufficient to
learn
that the Jewish young people were in higher positions and embraced the
Soviet system" (Kann 1981, 122). Rapoport sees the world through
Jewish-only
eyes. The massive suffering in which a total of nearly 20 million
Soviet
citizens had already died because of government actions is irrelevant.
http://www.csulb.edu/~kmacd/Preface.htm


and the forced collectivization famines (Ukraine, Kazakhstan and Russia)
where part of the blaim for the famine rests with scorched earth tactics
by farmers resisting expropriation (i.e. burning of crops and killing
of livestock).



Nothing beats Hitler in the number of state crime deaths in the USSR.
Nothing beats Hitler for the number of state crime deaths in the
rest of Europe either.



Rubbish. Tell that to the Polish officers burried in Katyn.

Tell that to the number of people the Communist murdered by forcing
them at gun point to "attack" unarmed into german machine guns.

Tell that to the millions murdered by the ethnic-revolution that
Bolshevism really was and transfered on the Nazis.

The "Black Book of Communism" Certainly doe not agree with you.
Naturaly a 'state crime' as you quote above covers normal combat
(albeit on a massive scale) much as radical feminist overcome with
zeal occaisionaly turn unwanted touching into sexual assault and turn
sexaul assault into rape.
  #27  
Old October 20th 03, 05:29 AM
Geoffrey Sinclair
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This will probably appear in the wrong place thanks to a bad
news server.

Michael Petukhov wrote in message ...
http://www1.iraqwar.ru/iraq-read_art...=16866&lang=ru

(in russian)

The article discuss the oil balance of NAZI Germany in 37 - june 44.
The funny side is that some 50% of oil and petrolium products
were supplied by US based companies (the standard oil of New Jersey,
the standard oil of California and the Davis oil company) mainly via
Spain. This includes 100% of oil supply for NAZI subs operating in
Atlantic. All these operations were authorised by US government.


I see someone is writing bad fiction and others are trying
to believe it.

The allied air offensive against Germany's oil supplies
means the German oil situation has been well documented.

Germany's oil imports, crude oil, fuels and lubricants, 1933
2,703,000, 1934 3,158,000, 1935 3,792,000, 1936
4,216,000, 1937 4,307,000, 1938 4,967,000 metric tons.
The increase is due to the economic recovery and stockpiling.

Germany had 2,134,000 metric tons of oil stocks on 1 August
1939, excluding the west fortification zone. Oil production in
greater Germany 1940 to 1944 was 29,482,000 metric tons,
this includes things like liquid gases.

If you just want to go on the avgas, motor vehicle fuel and diesel
oil then stocks as of September 1939 were 1,241,000 tons,
production and imports 1940 to 1944 were 23,975,000 metric
tons of which 7,492,000 metric tons were imports. Note imports
include over 1,000,000 tons of captured fuel and fuel sent directly
from Romania to the German army in the East.

Rather hard for the US to supply half of Germany's oil needs
unless there were large multi million ton imports in the 1937
to 1939 period, which clearly did not happen as the import
figures and 1939 fuel reserves figures show. Diesel production
1940 to 1944 amounted to 5,427,000 tons, imports another
2,327,000 tons, stocks as of September 1939 298,000 tons.
The U-boats were the big users of diesel, again rather hard
for the US to supply 100% of the U-boat fuel.

It would be good to know which country's ships were being
used to transport the oil, the allies were always short of
tankers until very late in the war. Spain in 1939 had some
16 tankers, or 86,000 Gross registered tons (ships of
1,600 GRT or larger).

In the time period 1 September 1939 to 22 June 1941 the
USSR supplied over 1,000,000 tons of petroleum products
to Germany out of over 3,500,000 tons of supplies. Then
add another 380,000 tons from Japan and 80,000 tons
from Afghanistan and Iran the USSR allowed to be
shipped through the USSR. See the Economic Blockade
by W N Medlicott, which goes into great detail about
Germany's imports from neutral countries, it includes
detailed tables from Sweden, Turkey, Spain, Portugal,
French North Africa and the USSR. It goes into the
negotiations the allies undertook with the neutrals to
minimise their trade with Germany and ensure they were
not used for blockade breaking.

Geoffrey Sinclair
Remove the nb for email.


  #29  
Old October 20th 03, 07:42 AM
Keith Willshaw
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"John Mullen" wrote in message
...
"BUFDRVR" wrote in message
...
Heck, prior to the outbreak of war, the Soviet Union was supplying
Nazi Germany with oil.


Among other things. In fact as German soliders rolled east on railway

cars
in
preparation for BARBAROSA, Soviet rail cars were flowing west full of

material
for Nazi Germany.


So to speak. Although, in fact they had different rail gauges so that

isn't
literally true..


The gauge change happened at the Russian frontier. Since the
border between Nazi and Soviet territory ran through the
centre of Poland it is literally the case that trains packed with
Soviet material were heading West even as the Germans invaded.

Keith


  #30  
Old October 20th 03, 07:45 AM
ZZBunker
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Rick wrote in message ink.net...
ZZBunker wrote:

You are obviously lying. Since submarines don't even don't
use oil that is made by mass marketers.



Pray tell just what kind of fuel did Diesel boats use?


Did I say fuel? No. Which is you look closely
you'll notice that all NAZI subs are now
in thier in own special parking lot,
1,000 fathoms down and just a slight hard right
from the street called Reality.



Rick

 




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