When to acknowledge ATC

Andrew wrote:

ATC says "radar contact, 20 miles south of XYZ, proceed on course". Do
you acknowledge this transmission? How about when ATC says "altimeter
setting 2992" on your first contact after a handoff? Does this require
acknowledgement?

In the past, I've acknowledged such things if the controller was not
busy. But I've heard all kinds. Some people read back the altimeter
setting. I've even heard people reading back the "radar contact"
message. I feel that this is a waste of bandwidth. However, I don't
know what ATC prefers. Do they want read back for everything, or should
we shut up as much as possible?

I don't read back "ident" instructions, I just press the button. I
acknowledge everything else. Things like altimeter and such I just use the
(shortened) tail number. Anything that's an instruction I read back.

--
Frank....H

"A Guy Called Tyketto" wrote in message
m...

If ATC tells you to remain outside a certain class airspace,
you must read that back and remain outside that airspace until he
clears you into it.


If ATC tells you to remain outside you have to remain outside, whay
requires you to read it back?



RADAR CONTACT is not required. Altimeter setting is not required.
Readback is not required. You know he hears you because he responded
to your radio call with your call sign. I'm having a hard time
following your argument.


Actually, for Class B, it does. AIM 3-2-3.d.2 and 3-2-3.e back that:

3-2-3.e: ATC Clearances and Separation. An ATC clearance is
required to enter and operate within Class B airspace. VFR
pilots are provided sequencing and separation from other
aircraft while operating within Class B airspace.

For Class C, AIM 3-2-4.3 states that 2-way comms must be
established, and that is the clearance into/through Class C. But, if
ATC tells you to remain outside of it, you *MUST* remain outside of it
until told otherwise. Plus, a readback of that would be required.


Where's the requirement for radar contact? Where's the requirement for a
readback?

but ATC's actual notification of 'remain
outside Class x airspace' (where x is B, or C) overrides your clearance
into that airspace. You will need to remain outside that airspace until
told otherwise.

Wouldn't it also apply to Class D airspace?

--
Mike Flyin'8
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
http://flying.4alexanders.com

Happy Dog wrote:

snip
Where do you fly where ATC doesn't give you the
setting on initial contact?

Almost every class B, C or D airport that I fly into. If on my
initial call, I give them the proper ATIS code (and the setting hasn't
changed). They have no reason to tell me (and everyone else) the
altimeter setting on initial contact. That's why ATIS was invented.
It reduces frequency congestion.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

wrote in message
...
"R.L." wrote:
[snip] I'd just say ROGER, thanks.

My first instructor, when teaching me the radios, said: "DO *NOT* say
'Roger!'" Maybe it was just her pet peeve, but she insisted that it was
more professional to acknowledge with your tail number vs. saying
"Roger" ... i.e., "95B, thanks".

"Roger" is definitely more professional than "Thanks". Now THAT is truly a
waste of bandwidth. Any "aviation-communication" text that I have ever
read, discourages the use of "thanks" or "thank you" etc... as being totally
redundant and useless...

If you do not intend to say "roger", then just say "niner fife bravo" and
nothing more.

"A Lieberman" wrote in message
...

What I wonder is, is it better to say your tail number first or after your
acknowledgement or read back of instructions. I tend to flip flop.



Technically, you are shortcutting:

"xyz tower, this is whatever-type ... four three lima. Roger, here is my
readback of your instructions"

you throw out the "xyx tower, this is whatever-type ...", but your tail
number is still left in, so it is now first, as in: "four three lima....
roger, two niner, niner two."

Unfortunately, if we do not include the "roger", then "four three lima....
two niner niner two" seems clumsy and that's when we flip-flop to "two niner
niner two.... four three lima" as being somehow more natural.

But I still prefer...: "four three lima.... roger, two niner niner two" as
the most natural of all.

Of course, VFR, I would never read back anything except
runway-hold-short-or-cross instructions, unless specifically requested to do
so.... so it would only be the acknowledgement: "four three lima".

"John Galban" wrote in
Where do you fly where ATC doesn't give you the
setting on initial contact?

Almost every class B, C or D airport that I fly into.

So you're speaking almost exclusively about towers? That I can see. If the
ATIS is good, no need for the altimeter setting. Other than towers, you
should almost always be getting a setting on initial contact.

moo

A Guy Called Tyketto wrote:

No clearance is required.


For Class C airspace, 2-way communication is the clearance into
that airspace. No, ATC doesn't ahve to 'clear' you into it, but the
communication is the clearance as is.

No clearance is required. Do you know what CLEARANCE means?

If ATC tells you to remain outside a certain class airspace,
you must read that back

I don't have to read back anything.

and remain outside that airspace until he
clears you into it

You will not EVER get a VFR clearance into class C or D airspace.

RADAR CONTACT is not required. Altimeter setting is not required.
Readback is not required. You know he hears you because he responded
to your radio call with your call sign. I'm having a hard time
following your argument.
Actually, for Class B, it does. AIM 3-2-3.d.2 and 3-2-3.e back that:

3-2-3.e: ATC Clearances and Separation. An ATC clearance is
required to enter and operate within Class B airspace. VFR
pilots are provided sequencing and separation from other
aircraft while operating within Class B airspace.

What on earth does that passage have to do with anything? Radar
contact is NOT required, Altimeter settings are not required, Readbacks
are not required. A clearance is required.

For Class C, AIM 3-2-4.3 states that 2-way comms must be
established, and that is the clearance into/through Class C. But, if
ATC tells you to remain outside of it, you *MUST* remain outside of it
until told otherwise. Plus, a readback of that would be required.

It says nothing about clearances. You're making things up again.

wrote:
but ATC's actual notification of 'remain
outside Class x airspace' (where x is B, or C) overrides your clearance
into that airspace. You will need to remain outside that airspace until
told otherwise.


Wouldn't it also apply to Class D airspace?

Wouldn't it also apply to any airspace. If ATC tells me to stay clear
of the town of Pinkneyville, I'm inclined to oblige (though I may ask
them later when I'm on the ground).

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Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"A Guy Called Tyketto" wrote in message
m...

If ATC tells you to remain outside a certain class airspace,
you must read that back and remain outside that airspace until he
clears you into it.


If ATC tells you to remain outside you have to remain outside, whay
requires you to read it back?

Because if you don't read it back, they have no way to know
that you have acknowledged their call to you. Would you want ATC to
keep repeating the same call to you, adding more radio congestion to a
frequency they are already busy on? If they're trying to provide
separation that your jaunt through their airspace could jeopardize,
they're bloody well are goign to look for hearing a readback from you
on it, and make sure that you are still outside their airspace.


RADAR CONTACT is not required. Altimeter setting is not required.
Readback is not required. You know he hears you because he responded
to your radio call with your call sign. I'm having a hard time
following your argument.


Actually, for Class B, it does. AIM 3-2-3.d.2 and 3-2-3.e back that:

3-2-3.e: ATC Clearances and Separation. An ATC clearance is
required to enter and operate within Class B airspace. VFR
pilots are provided sequencing and separation from other
aircraft while operating within Class B airspace.

For Class C, AIM 3-2-4.3 states that 2-way comms must be
established, and that is the clearance into/through Class C. But, if
ATC tells you to remain outside of it, you *MUST* remain outside of it
until told otherwise. Plus, a readback of that would be required.


Where's the requirement for radar contact? Where's the requirement for a
readback?

For class C, they will always tell you 'radar contact
location, say altitude'. Class B, they'll tell you 'radar contact
location, cleared through/into xxx Class B airspace' along with an
altimeter setting for the major airport in their area. That is a
requirement for ATC to give you when entering Class B or C airspace.
See the 7110.65, sections 5-3-1 through 5-3-6. There's the requirement.
If they tell you to remain outside a given airspace, you had best
readback that you are remaining outside that airspace. 7-9-2 gives
leeway for the readback.

BL.
- --
Brad Littlejohn | Email:
Unix Systems Administrator, |
Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead! | http://www.sbcglobal.net/~tyketto
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